The Brake Rotor, Pad, Line, Fluid, and Duct Thread (Evo X)
 

Evo X Peoples:

1st thread from:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ct-thread.html

Lots of good info you guys too.

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Everything you wanted to know about brakes and upgrading them for street, autocross, and track specifications.

This thread will cover:
--Rotor Designs
___-Slotted, Drilled, Dimpled, Blank
--Rotor Construction
___-1-piece v. 2-piece
--Brake Pads (when/why/tires)
___- Street Pads
___ ___-Ceramic Pads
___- Track Pads
___ ___- Street Tire
___ ___- R-Comps
--SS lines
--Brake Fluids
--Brake Duct Cooling Kits


Rotor Designs
Slotted, Drilled, Dimpled, Blank

Slotted/Dimpled:
Rotors have slotted CNC machined into the rotor's face. Dimpled have, well, dimples - just like a golfball.

Pros: This helps with de-gassing that brake pads under hard use. A thin layer of gas can form that can interfere with pad contact to the rotor. The idea here is the vein/slot/dimple will give an exit for the gas to escape/go.

Cons: If you ever have pad material transfer (warping) on the rotor face you will not be able to turn the rotor surface (take off a thin amount of material to clear up pad transfer). Creates fissure points for the rotor to crack from. De-gassing is not often heard of anymore.

Recommendations: street use, autocross use, track use*.
*Note: pad transfer can occur, not turning means wobbly braking. Use at your own discretion.

Drilled:
Two variations - holes are a part of the rotors mold and holes where drilled into the rotor after it was molded. Typically, the molded with holes is more expensive, but it is better than having the rotors drilled after molding.

Pros: Supposedly helps with rotor cooling. However, today's, modern rotors, have venting veins in between the rotor faces.

Cons: Rotors that are drilled after being molded can be weakened, structurally. Many HPDE event organizers will not allow cars with such rotors on the track.

Recommendations: street use and autocross use.

Blanks:
Just like the OE rotors. No modifications to the rotor face.

Pros: Lots of contact in terms of rotor face to pad.

Cons: If you think you are gassing the pads - no where for gasses to go.

Recommendations: street use, autocross use, track use.


Rotor Construction
1-piece: Rotors/hat are molded as one complete piece.
2-piece: Rotors and hats are two separate pieces.

1-piece v. 2-piece:
2-piece rotors do a better job of heat transferring, specifically, not transferring the heat back into the hat. They do carry a higher upfront cost over 1-piece rotors, but the benefit is that when a new rotor face is called for, you just have to change the rotor ring and not the whole assembly. 2-piece are also lighter by 3-4lbs thanks to hat material used. They also can expand and contract without interfering with the hat.

1-piece Pros: Cheaper, work well. Cons: Heat transferring at the limit.
2-piece Pros: Heat transferring control, weight savings. Cons: Costs.

FRONT ROTOR WEIGHT (each, lbs)
X Rotor data needed:
Girodisc slotted 25.5


REAR ROTOR WEIGHT (each, lbs)
X Rotor data needed:
Girodisc slotted 18

Brake Pads
Two sections here - street and track. I am a big proponent to separating the two. Brakes are the line between you on the track and you flying off the track at the end of a straightaway. On the tracks, massive amounts of heat is generated. Street pads are just not designed to handle those levels of heat.

Street Pads
These are pads that are only meant to be run on the street or in autocross events. Again, they should never be taken out on the track. Their drag coefficients fall off quickly when past their operating temperature.

Acceptable street only pads (I will post information that I know about them):
Satisfied GranSport GS5: 100-850F, .49 drag coefficient
Satisfied GranSport GS6: 100-700F, .42 drag coefficient
GiroDisc Magic: 150-850F
Ferodo DS2500: 100-1000F, .50 drag coefficient
Porterfield R4-S: 0-1000F (0-600F optimal), .4 drag coefficient
Brembo OEM pads
Racing Brake ET300
Performance Friction Z
Hawk HPS: 0-600F, low/no bite (glazed over on my street setup) PICS HERE
Hawk HP+: 0-700F, better bite can be noisy on street good for autocrossing
Axxis Ultimates (ULT): 0-932F, .40 to .49 drag coefficient (true number unknown)
EBC GreenStuff: 0-1000F, .55 drag coefficient (non-Evo fitment, but for reference)
EBC RedStuff: 200-1400F, .50 drag coefficient

Ceramics (pure ceramic only) – a subset:
There are a few brands of ceramic pads out there for the Evo (many may be a mixture). And these have their own place. They are good for street only driving. For daily driving they are an option.

Track Pads
These are pads that are only meant to be run on the track. Again, they should never be taken out on the street. They take some temperature to work right, without that temperature they might not work or have much stopping bite.

Two levels to track pads - street tires and r-comp/slicked type tires. Generally, stickier tires (r-comps) means you will need more brake due to the increased levels of grip the tires will give you. They can and will overpower your pads. Also, more power equals more speed means the same ruling as r-comps.

How much power? I can give myself as a reference. I make 340whpish, traps 116-117 in the quarter mile. I would say I am at the edge of street tire type pads (HT10's) – more on why in a bit. If you make over 350whp or trap higher than 120 in the quarter mile - moving to more aggressive pads might be a good idea.

Acceptable track only pads - Street tires
Hawk HT10: 300-1300F, intermediate to high torque
Hawk HT14: 300-1400F, high torque
Porterfield R4: 100-1200F (100-900F optimal), .52 drag coefficient
Racing Brake ET700: 100-1200F, intermediate torque
Racing Brake ET800: 100-1400F, intermediate to high torque
Performance Friction 97's: 167-2000F, intermediate to high torque
EBC YellowStuff: 300-1750F, intermediate to high torque
CL RC5+: 0-1300F, 0.4 drag coefficient
CL RC6E: 0-1800F, 0.46 drag coefficient

Acceptable track only pads – R-comp tires or high hp
Hawk DTC60: 400-1600F, high torque
Hawk DTC70: 400-1600F, higher torque than 60's
Racing Brake ET900: 300-1600F, high torque
Performance Friction 01: 167-2000F, high torque
Carbotech XP12: 250 to 2000F, high torque
Raybestos ST43: ? to 1400F, high torque Review Here
CL RC6: 0-1800F, 0.5 drag coefficient (intermediate to high torque)
CL RC8: 0-1800F, 0.6 drag coefficient (high torque)

Stainless Steel (SS) Braided Lines
These are brake lines that directly replace your original rubber/steel reinforced lines. The benefit here is not immediate, but consistency. In the past, OE rubber lines have been known to expand, leading to a squishy pedal, or worse, crack, leading to death. The Evo seems to have decent lines, no cracking events to my knowledge. But, hot lap after hot lap, the lines can start to get a heat transferred into them. The SS lines will not expand, this is where the consistency in pedal feel comes from. And now can be had for a reasonable cost.

Not all SS lines are created equal. A few things, Goodridge lines had an advisory on how to install them right. Also, SS lines must be DOT approved. Techna-Fit carry the correct testing and certification. Lastly, VIII and IX lines can be different. IX owners - depending on where your car falls in the production line, you might have different fittings to the caliper. It seems late run IX's are slightly different than the VIII and early IX models. Sorry, I have no way of telling. But if you order a set and they don't fit - then get them exchanged for the correct fitting ones.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-advisory.html

Brake Fluids
A must for any autocross or track car, and not a bad idea at all for a street car. DOT4 resists boiling over in extreme usage (racing). Higher the dry/wet temperatures the better, but cost is a factor here, some can be very expensive.

Fluids should be flushed at least every 2 years on a street only car. Brake fluid is hydrophilic – it literally loves water. Water becomes suspended within the fluid and lowers the temperature ranges.

For track or autocross cars, the fluid should be changed/bleed much more often. Running the fluids at high temperatures does were it out over time. This can be seen in its color. Most fluids are a clearish color, after track or heavy autocross use they will go to amber and even black.

On my car, again as a reference, I flush the fluids every spring to 100% fresh. Then bleed before any track days and every couple of autocross events. Typically, I track then run an autocross, then bleed – track day and so forth. 12 oz will do a bleeding, 24 oz for a flush, 36 oz for brakes and clutch lines.

DOT4 Fluid Ratings: Dry // Wet
Amsoil Series 600 DOT 4 (BF4) 580 // 410
Castrol SRF 590 // 518
Neo Super DOT 610 610 // 421
Motul Racing 600 585 // 421
Motul Racing 660 610 // 400
ATE Super Blue Racing 536 // 392
ATE TYP 200 536 // 392
Valvoline Synpower 480 // 311
Castrol LMA DOT 3/4 446 // 311
Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3 550 // 290
Performance Friction 550 // 284
Brembo Sport 500 520 // 336
Endless RF650 622 // 424

From:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...fraid-ask.html

Chemistry Note: Look for something that contains boric acid or says it contains borates. These fluids will last longer because they keep the water from actually affecting the boiling point. These fluids scavenge water because they contain esters of boric acid. When water gets into the fluid, it hydrolyzes the ester into a long chain alcohol (normal brake fluid) and a boric acid unit (still has high boiling point). This will extend the life of the fluid in terms of water absorption.

Brake Duct Cooling Kits
Brake duct cooling kits do exactly what they sound like – they cool the brake rotors with direct cool air. These are very beneficial on the track and even useful in autocross situations. A ducting kit can lower rotor temperatures by 20 to 30%. In example, I have infrared gunned my rotors after a session (and a cool down lap) at 900+F. So on the track, being pushed easily over 900F. So no ducts, temperatures would be around 1125F – after that cool down.

*Note: This is why I say I am at the limit of my pads (1300F Max operating Temperature (MOT)).

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...tallation.html

Thanks for reading and happy racing!

SmikeEvo

If you guys have more info on pads, rotors, ducts, or fluids please post them here and I can edit the 1st thread.

Let the discussion begin!

Nice post Smike. Looking to upgrade in the very near future. Great info here. {thumbup}

Some good info here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...hlight=cooling

(removing dust shields and Porsche air guides).

im looking for a set of SS brake line....i was thinking the Goodridge, but after seeing the post, is there a problem on evo X?
which SS line do you guys recommend?
Nick

No problem on the X.

One is:
http://www.techna-fit.com/mitsubishi.html

I have always run this company. Great product and customer service.

I believe AMS also makes a set.

My experience with brakes during the 2009 EMRA TT Series:
I started off with the Centric slotted rotors f/r and Carbotech XP10's front XP8 rear in which one set of pads and rotors worked very well for 12 events but eventually the Centric Rotors got to thin and warped. On avg my front rotors would measure 700 degrees with one lap of cooling.
I then reinstalled the stock Brembo rotors and ran EBC Yellowstuff Pads and within 2 twenty minute sessions glazed the EBC's. 850 degrees with one lap of cooling.
I switched back to Carbotech XP12 front and XP10 rear with the stock Brembo rotors and all was well again. It seems like the blank OEM rotors seem to get much hotter then the slotted I was running. 850-900 degrees with one lap of cooling.
To alleviate the heating issues i will be going to RB 2 Piece Open Slots, as soon as they are released, running Brake Duct Guides, and testing some new pad compounds from Racing Brake.

has anyone considered removing the dust shield on the rear side of the rotors? They don't look very effective, but would prevent a lot of the ducted air from actually cooling the rotors.

Are the american cars equipped with stock 2 piece rotor from factory? how good are those? is there any good aftermarket replacements for the rotor?

Have anyone tried Carbotech's XP12/XP10 combo on track? how is the rotor wear on streets?

only the MR has the 2 piece....

i see, so Goodridge and techna fit, which one would you choose?

I always have run Technafit.

And track pads should not be daily driven. They are not meant for that and they might eat rotors at a much accelerated rate.

^^ still curious. any opinions? I ask because I needed to remove the rear shields to install my brake kit. I'll share the info on it since it's not on the list.

I have the Evo X kit listed here: http://thebrakeman.com/evo_kits

I don't have the exact specs on everything, but it uses the factory rear rotors with upgraded calipers (F4 tornado calipers w/ 1.38" pistons in the rear, 1.75" up front), and replaces the front rotors with Procast 2-piece 13x1.25's.

I didn't have a good scale to weigh the rotors, but the two packages sent to me weighed 25lbs each (1 rotor, 2 calipers), and when I mailed the stockers out, they weighted 50 each, so *shrug* I think they were listed as 12.5lb, but dont quote me on that

I have a set of their #3 compound race pads and #82 compound street pads.

Here's a rundown of their pad specs:
Race:
#1 - Max 500 deg, .65 coef (designed for drag setups)
#2 - Max 900 deg, .54 coef (dirt track setup)
#3 - Max 1200 deg, .48 coef (asphalt track setup)
#83 - Max 1500 deg, .55 coef (asphalt track, aggressive tip-in)
#84 - Max 1500 deg, .56 coef (similar to #83 with longer lifespan)

nice to read all this its amazing

hi,
i just changed the SS brake line...and when i tracking my car, my calipers is leaking from the outside of the value...but it's just very small amount, do you guys know what happened? some people said because i changed SS brake line and the pressure is too high, and some people said they brake is over heat... so i don't know what is going on.
please help!