Wideband
Yeah, the art of tuning without a WB is definitely on the way out. When you can get one along with a cable to log data from the ECU for around $300, there's just no reason not to. When not tuning it doesn't really matter, but it's still a nice diagnostic tool to have.
I have to say when TTP was tuning my car, the Zeitronix was pretty easy to read/ use. I just watched it and knew exactly what my car was doing by looking at the laptop! If I didn't have all the gauges I have now, I would of bought it! But it's a great tool, and for the price TTP has it, it's worth it IMO, since my Autometer gauges cost more and only read one thing.....
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Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Akron, Ohio
Like TTP said, you can not tune off of a narrowband sensor. It is only accurate around stoich, anywhere on either side of stoich, your accuracy, resolution and percision gets way far off.
Narrowband 02 sensors are use for feedback (closed loop) control only. Once your MAF sees over a certain airflow, the computer kicks to open loop and the narrowband is not longer used for that same feed back control.
Narrowband 02 sensors are use for feedback (closed loop) control only. Once your MAF sees over a certain airflow, the computer kicks to open loop and the narrowband is not longer used for that same feed back control.
An innovate LC-1 is $200.00.....there is no excuse not to have a wideband at that price.
and I cant believe a "proffessional" tuner openly admits to tuning with a narrowband sensor.....
and I cant believe a "proffessional" tuner openly admits to tuning with a narrowband sensor.....
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Virginia Beach, Virginia
let me be clear, I can tune a car with narrowband, I've been at it since the early 90's when WB02's weren't an option for many people due to the price.
I mentioned before, I prefer that the customer have wideband.
I mentioned before, I prefer that the customer have wideband.
TTP FTW.
a few thoughts:
NB02 has a low 0-1 resolution so slight fluctuations in AFR will not show up
WB02 has a high 10-20 resolution so you can see exactly what's going on.. I can even detect misfires with the Innovate LM-1, it's that fast.
NB02 don't have a heater and require hot exhaust temps to get them to read correctly
WB02 have a built in heater to keep them at the right temps.
NB02 cycle back and forth from 0-1 (roughly) when you're "stoich" at idle and cruise which makes it difficult to see exactly what the AFR is.
WB02 will give you the exact AFR, no cycling.
that being said, I still don't have much trouble tuning by NB02, there's an art to it and a few tricks to get the readings more consistent for tuning. If you have the choice, get a WB02, it's superior in every way and relatively inexpensive these days.
NB02 has a low 0-1 resolution so slight fluctuations in AFR will not show up
WB02 has a high 10-20 resolution so you can see exactly what's going on.. I can even detect misfires with the Innovate LM-1, it's that fast.
NB02 don't have a heater and require hot exhaust temps to get them to read correctly
WB02 have a built in heater to keep them at the right temps.
NB02 cycle back and forth from 0-1 (roughly) when you're "stoich" at idle and cruise which makes it difficult to see exactly what the AFR is.
WB02 will give you the exact AFR, no cycling.
that being said, I still don't have much trouble tuning by NB02, there's an art to it and a few tricks to get the readings more consistent for tuning. If you have the choice, get a WB02, it's superior in every way and relatively inexpensive these days.
2. All newer cars have heaters in their narrowbands. The wideband incooperates temperature control circuitry because the voltage output from the sensor with respect to oxygen content changes with sensor temperature.
3. Widebands also cycle around stoich (14.7:1) at idle on gasoline. I don't know what wideband your lookilng at or intprepreting it to be that isn't doing that.
You can't precisely tune with a narroband. The output changes with respect to element temperature. If you look at a narroband sensor response graph you will see that their are different plotted lines for different element temperatures. If your fine with a plus or minus 1 AFR point fine. I tune my **** a little better than that though. THis isn't the 90's anymore.........
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damianhindley
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Dec 13, 2005 09:27 AM