Calling all evo owners!!! In dire need of help!!
Calling all evo owners!!! In dire need of help!!
I recently purchased a 2006 Evo IX GSR which had a ton of engine work done (hydro-locked engine) by a popular tuner in Houston, TX on March 28, 2012 along with a tune.
I flew to Houston, TX to drive it back to Branson, MO.
On April 14 I tried contacting the person who tuned and worked on the vehicle for a few questions and wondering if he could help me out on some major issues i was having with the vehicle. He was out sick. I left the car alone until I got more answers from someone who could help me.
On April 20 I tried starting the car to take to my mechanic who has worked on my previous evo. It gave me the same issues the reason i wasn't driving it. too lean on idle which then killed itself and too rich at slight accel. (wideband AF gauge)
On April 25 my mechanic got a hold of me and told me he had done a compression test. 2 cylinders had 25psi. 1 cylinder had 40psi. and the last one had 0. This scared me to no end because as far as the too lean/too rich issue was i thought that was just a vacuum leak\boost leak, sparkplug issue somewhere. Once he saw this he called and told me whoever worked on this car had forgotten to put a few major bolts in that held some major parts of the engine together(coolant importance). The pics are attached with descriptions on what exactly happened.
On May 9 a person from the tuner shop called and explained that in the pictures he sees 3 bolts missing. 2 of them are normal for popping out
and the last one he cant explain how. He then continues to tell me to tell my mechanic to make sure the timing is correct if its not to correct it and then try another compression test and to add a tightener to the missing three bolts. WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Also is this normal??? 3 bolts to pop out??? I drove this car from Houston, TX. all the way to Branson, MO. no issues. 2 weeks after still no issues then on April 14 is when it killed itself. At that point I had put 1500 miles on the car. 700+ on the trip and the rest in town.
what am i suppose to do? The previous owner who i bought this evo from spent over $6000 fixing the engine from a hydrolock problem. Basically giving me a new engine.
Am I suppose to buy a new engine every 1500 miles or so? no way! My first evo didn't give me any "popping out bolts."
So this is where I am. i need everyones experience on this and everybody's help. Please look at the photos. Tell me what you see and what steps I should take. Its been two years since my last evo was destroyed by a deer and its taken me this long to find another one.
Please help a fellow Evo enthusiast and heart broken owner
you guys really are my only hope
I flew to Houston, TX to drive it back to Branson, MO.
On April 14 I tried contacting the person who tuned and worked on the vehicle for a few questions and wondering if he could help me out on some major issues i was having with the vehicle. He was out sick. I left the car alone until I got more answers from someone who could help me.
On April 20 I tried starting the car to take to my mechanic who has worked on my previous evo. It gave me the same issues the reason i wasn't driving it. too lean on idle which then killed itself and too rich at slight accel. (wideband AF gauge)
On April 25 my mechanic got a hold of me and told me he had done a compression test. 2 cylinders had 25psi. 1 cylinder had 40psi. and the last one had 0. This scared me to no end because as far as the too lean/too rich issue was i thought that was just a vacuum leak\boost leak, sparkplug issue somewhere. Once he saw this he called and told me whoever worked on this car had forgotten to put a few major bolts in that held some major parts of the engine together(coolant importance). The pics are attached with descriptions on what exactly happened.
On May 9 a person from the tuner shop called and explained that in the pictures he sees 3 bolts missing. 2 of them are normal for popping out
and the last one he cant explain how. He then continues to tell me to tell my mechanic to make sure the timing is correct if its not to correct it and then try another compression test and to add a tightener to the missing three bolts. WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE.Also is this normal??? 3 bolts to pop out??? I drove this car from Houston, TX. all the way to Branson, MO. no issues. 2 weeks after still no issues then on April 14 is when it killed itself. At that point I had put 1500 miles on the car. 700+ on the trip and the rest in town.
what am i suppose to do? The previous owner who i bought this evo from spent over $6000 fixing the engine from a hydrolock problem. Basically giving me a new engine.
Am I suppose to buy a new engine every 1500 miles or so? no way! My first evo didn't give me any "popping out bolts."
So this is where I am. i need everyones experience on this and everybody's help. Please look at the photos. Tell me what you see and what steps I should take. Its been two years since my last evo was destroyed by a deer and its taken me this long to find another one.
Please help a fellow Evo enthusiast and heart broken owner
you guys really are my only hope
Last edited by teudmunki9mr; May 19, 2012 at 02:10 PM.
I've never had any issues with bolts just "popping off".. Some of those bolts have a decent amount of tension on them as well and wouldn't just pop off (especially at the same time).
It sounds to me like someone didn't put them in and doesn't want to admit it. This would explain why you could drive it for a while then all of a sudden it fails.
Unfortunately since you did put so many miles on it, I'm thinking you're S.O.L.
It sounds to me like someone didn't put them in and doesn't want to admit it. This would explain why you could drive it for a while then all of a sudden it fails.
Unfortunately since you did put so many miles on it, I'm thinking you're S.O.L.
Those bolts don't just "pop" out, they just weren't ever installed with the new motor. The bolts are not what I would be worried about, they have nothing to do with the low compression. There is something else going on internally that you need to check out. Run a leak down test as stated above and post those results. Check the oil for coolant and the coolant for oil or try and pressurize the coolant system and see what kind of results you get. Like I said, those three bolts really have nothing to do with you having low compression as they deal with the coolant system. It looks like someone just didn't put them on when the new motor was dropped in.
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thanks for all the help everybody!! Im having the leak down test done now. As far as the $6k rebuild I will post a picture of the receipt on all that has been done to it then to get a better idea of the situation.
But again Thanks a bunch!!!!
But again Thanks a bunch!!!!
just received this from the owner of the shop
"Dear, ...
As for the bolts, had they not been installed at all, it is likely that it would have developed a leak while tuning on the dyno that we would have caught. They may have not been torqued properly allowing them to work out over time. This is why on new engine installations it is important to check EVERYTHING after some shake down, and very regularly for the first several thousand miles, because while unfortunate, mistakes happen. Corrosion on the turbo feed line was noted during assembly, however the owner declined to replace it as it was not leaking yet, (and did not leak while tuning the car).
While this is very unfortunate, the car has a working temperature gauge and check engine light. I am fairly certain that the actual cause of your engine failure after reading your thread on Evom as well as viewing your photos is operating the engine while overheated. Had the engine been shut down when it began overheating, you would likely have no engine damage.
It is likely that at minimum your cylinder head is warped, and at worst, you may have possible piston and cylinder wall damage. At the very least you are going to need to pull the head off the car and visually inspect the piston tops and cylinder walls, as well as the cylinder head itself. Your engine has standard sized valves and standard compression Wiseco pistons. If the pistons and cylinder walls have no damage, you should be able to have the head milled and replace the head gasket without having valve to piston clearance issues. However your mechanic will need to check this clearance with clay prior to actual assembly to be sure. The pistons are relieved for over size valves, so you should have a good amount of clearance, but you will need to check it after head rework. Minimum clearance is .080", however .100" is recommended if possible. The clearance check should be done with your old head gasket cleaned up, torqued to 75% of spec. Unless you have piston to valve clearance issues, I recommend an OEM head gasket. If you have clearance issues after head repair, there are thicker gaskets available that will allow for this.
Unfortunately we can not help you much in your situation for 2 reasons, the primary reason being the cause of failure is overheating the engine. Regardless of why the engine was overheated, overheated engines have NO WARRANTY. It is up to the operator to pay attention to his environment and stop operating the engine if it begins to over heat, prior to engine damage. The second reason is that our warranty stops when the vehicle is sold. This is because we have no way of knowing if the new owner is even basically aware of the requirements of warranty, including not operating the engine while it is overheating.
All of this aside, I will make any parts your mechanic says that your engine needs available to you at actual cost with no shipping charges. Given the misfortune you are experiencing with this car, I know it is not much, but it is the best that I can do.
Regards,
owner"
as far as the overheating issue that he claims I missed there really is no way i couldve known about the engine overheating because all the coolant leaked out of that one inch hole right in front of the thermostat. So there could in no way for the coolant to pass by it to tell me it was overly how.
what do you guys think?
My mechanic says he wont trust a engine after its been overheating
If i ask him to get in the engine and not see any cylinder wall damage or warping how damaging in the long run would i face if i drove it when everything put back together?
answers would be greatly appreciated
advice as well
thanks ahead of time
"Dear, ...
As for the bolts, had they not been installed at all, it is likely that it would have developed a leak while tuning on the dyno that we would have caught. They may have not been torqued properly allowing them to work out over time. This is why on new engine installations it is important to check EVERYTHING after some shake down, and very regularly for the first several thousand miles, because while unfortunate, mistakes happen. Corrosion on the turbo feed line was noted during assembly, however the owner declined to replace it as it was not leaking yet, (and did not leak while tuning the car).
While this is very unfortunate, the car has a working temperature gauge and check engine light. I am fairly certain that the actual cause of your engine failure after reading your thread on Evom as well as viewing your photos is operating the engine while overheated. Had the engine been shut down when it began overheating, you would likely have no engine damage.
It is likely that at minimum your cylinder head is warped, and at worst, you may have possible piston and cylinder wall damage. At the very least you are going to need to pull the head off the car and visually inspect the piston tops and cylinder walls, as well as the cylinder head itself. Your engine has standard sized valves and standard compression Wiseco pistons. If the pistons and cylinder walls have no damage, you should be able to have the head milled and replace the head gasket without having valve to piston clearance issues. However your mechanic will need to check this clearance with clay prior to actual assembly to be sure. The pistons are relieved for over size valves, so you should have a good amount of clearance, but you will need to check it after head rework. Minimum clearance is .080", however .100" is recommended if possible. The clearance check should be done with your old head gasket cleaned up, torqued to 75% of spec. Unless you have piston to valve clearance issues, I recommend an OEM head gasket. If you have clearance issues after head repair, there are thicker gaskets available that will allow for this.
Unfortunately we can not help you much in your situation for 2 reasons, the primary reason being the cause of failure is overheating the engine. Regardless of why the engine was overheated, overheated engines have NO WARRANTY. It is up to the operator to pay attention to his environment and stop operating the engine if it begins to over heat, prior to engine damage. The second reason is that our warranty stops when the vehicle is sold. This is because we have no way of knowing if the new owner is even basically aware of the requirements of warranty, including not operating the engine while it is overheating.
All of this aside, I will make any parts your mechanic says that your engine needs available to you at actual cost with no shipping charges. Given the misfortune you are experiencing with this car, I know it is not much, but it is the best that I can do.
Regards,
owner"
as far as the overheating issue that he claims I missed there really is no way i couldve known about the engine overheating because all the coolant leaked out of that one inch hole right in front of the thermostat. So there could in no way for the coolant to pass by it to tell me it was overly how.
what do you guys think?
My mechanic says he wont trust a engine after its been overheating
If i ask him to get in the engine and not see any cylinder wall damage or warping how damaging in the long run would i face if i drove it when everything put back together?
answers would be greatly appreciated
advice as well
thanks ahead of time
I am not pointing fingers but i see people leave those bolts out all the time because they think it isn't needed and a pain to get to sometimes. Either the lines popped off cause of a blown head gasket (bad tune, etc. Don't blow for no reason), or you got lucky and it only worked its way loose after your trip home. Regardless though, with that compression, you need to do a leak down, then pull the head. Good luck.
Who rebuilt the engine?
Aaron
Who rebuilt the engine?
Aaron
Those bolts don't just "pop" out, they just weren't ever installed with the new motor. The bolts are not what I would be worried about, they have nothing to do with the low compression. There is something else going on internally that you need to check out. Run a leak down test as stated above and post those results. Check the oil for coolant and the coolant for oil or try and pressurize the coolant system and see what kind of results you get. Like I said, those three bolts really have nothing to do with you having low compression as they deal with the coolant system. It looks like someone just didn't put them on when the new motor was dropped in.
In other words, what you said is incorrect and those bolt missing could totally lead to his issue.
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