car is rich at idle/cruise...need logs looked at...help... - EvolutionM - Mitsubishi Lancer and Lancer Evolution Community



General Engine Management / Tuning Forum Discuss general EMS tuning concepts that do not pertain to a specfic brand or product.

car is rich at idle/cruise...need logs looked at...help...

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Nov 10, 2017, 12:46 PM   #1
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 561
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
car is rich at idle/cruise...need logs looked at...help...

Hi guys i made this post in hopes that some of you tuning gurus can take a look at these logs and tell me if you see something out of place here or if something sticks out that may be causing this issue. Car is rich at idle and cruise. Wot seems to be ok. Ive seen afr while idling as low as 13 - 13.1 and itll fluctuate up to 13.8 - 14 sometimes. Noticed when its cold or humid out its on the richer side. I logged it from sitting over night right when i turned it on up to about when coolant temp is 185 or so then took a second log when car was idling for a while. This is all idling. Now i dont know much about this stuff but i have some ideas.

Some things that caught my attention:

* It was in the 80s outside here in tampa, fl and with car dead cold the iat sensor read 68 degrees.

* The map sensor reading was -8 - -9 or so the whole time and my vaccuum gauge reads -16. I dont know if they should read the same or if this is correct. I did change the omni 4 bar map sensor with a buddys and results are the same.

* Battery voltage dropped as low as 13.6 at some point. Idk if this is ok or not.

Btw, car is on sd with iat sensor. Walbro 255, cams, and basic bolt ons.

Thank you for the help guys. Trying to figure this out.
Attached Files
File Type: csv cold start to operating temp.csv (519.5 KB, 0 views)
File Type: csv up to temp.csv (193.2 KB, 0 views)
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 01:53 PM   #2
Evolved Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: in a garage
Posts: 558
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

Drives: Lancer

About 5 threads now for the very same problem.


Waste of time taking a log when the fuel pressure is still out of spec.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 02:56 PM   #3
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
 
letsgetthisdone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 9,407
Thanked 349 Times in 332 Posts

Drives: 2005 Evo 8. 2011 F150 FX4

Firs thing, O2 feedback trim is 0, the whole log. Tells me the car has been forced to run in open loop constantly, which is why you're seeing the AFR rich, and fluctuating. Second thing, timing seems WAY high for idle. should be in the single digits, you're at 17-19* lol


Who tuned the car? In reality, it's running fine for being in open loop. If you want it idle at stoich, you need to ask the tuner to to have in run closed loop for idle and cruise. It's also possible your front O2 sensor is bad.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 03:49 PM   #4
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (8)
 
razorlab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alameda, ca
Posts: 10,596
Thanked 161 Times in 143 Posts

Drives: a laptop connected to your ECU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightSaid fred View Post
About 5 threads now for the very same problem.


Waste of time taking a log when the fuel pressure is still out of spec.
That's because you keep being stupid in them and creating noise.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 03:52 PM   #5
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (8)
 
razorlab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alameda, ca
Posts: 10,596
Thanked 161 Times in 143 Posts

Drives: a laptop connected to your ECU.

I agree with letsgetthisdone. There is no fuel feedback control going on. You can get it pretty on point with fuel tuning even with fuel feedback off but you should at least turn it back on to see where you sit.

Also, why is the voltage dropping?

Last edited by razorlab; Nov 10, 2017 at 04:00 PM.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 04:31 PM   #6
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 561
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
See i knew there was an issue with fuel stft and ltft being at 0 the whole time. Now im no tuner and dont know much about this side of messing with the car but to my understanding stft aquired info to help ltft find a midpoint of some sort to keep the car stoich. The front o2 sensor is new. Maybe 3 mo old but i have warranty on it. Im going to return it and get a new one just to rule it out. The car used to run fine and afr was 14.7 - 15 ish. I had someone tune the car and then a local tuner who i know checked it out and said the timing map was all screwed up and showed knock so he fixed that. Car started doing this a while after. I guess maybe he forced it to run in open loop? Dont want to mention any names. This is what happens when you dont know much about something which i hate. I do everything to this car except tuning myself. You guys dont understand how much it eats me up inside showing you guys the logs and finding out they did **** work for a tune. I really appreciate you guys' advice. Where should i go from here?

attached here is another long as log i did at tuner's request because he said i didnt log afr and stft on first log...ill put it up for you guys to see for the hell of it...
Attached Files
File Type: csv cold to operating temp plus revving.csv (2.09 MB, 0 views)
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 04:44 PM   #7
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (8)
 
razorlab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alameda, ca
Posts: 10,596
Thanked 161 Times in 143 Posts

Drives: a laptop connected to your ECU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nor11384 View Post

attached here is another long as log i did at tuner's request because he said i didnt log afr and stft on first log...ill put it up for you guys to see for the hell of it...
Did you uncheck the trims when logging? They are logged for a little bit then go to zero.

Knock sum is wack for a while too then goes fine.

Seems like something going on with your logging....
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 05:00 PM   #8
Evolved Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: in a garage
Posts: 558
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

Drives: Lancer

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorlab View Post

Also, why is the voltage dropping?
Voltage always drops at low RPM.
The output of the alternator is dependent on RPM.

How much it drops by depends on the electrical load, size of battery and state of charge of the battery.

That's 3 variables that you can't tune for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nor11384 View Post



* The map sensor reading was -8 - -9 or so the whole time and my vaccuum gauge reads -16. I dont know if they should read the same or if this is correct.
The MAP sensor might be reading PSI and the vac gauge inches mercury.

Last edited by RightSaid fred; Nov 10, 2017 at 05:06 PM.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 05:04 PM   #9
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (8)
 
razorlab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alameda, ca
Posts: 10,596
Thanked 161 Times in 143 Posts

Drives: a laptop connected to your ECU.

It's 13.6 @ 900+ rpm.

I didn't say anything about tuning for it, I asked him the question, not you. Please leave, nobody wants you here.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 05:13 PM   #10
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 561
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorlab View Post
Did you uncheck the trims when logging? They are logged for a little bit then go to zero.

Knock sum is wack for a while too then goes fine.

Seems like something going on with your logging....
i didnt uncheck them...theyre all checked...i dont know why voltage is dropping...this is all at idle...i had battery and alternator checked and it checked out fine...can running the car with idle and cruise like this hurt the motor?

actually now that i remember to get the cable to connect with the computer i have to mess with it until it recognizes it...i think i started logging with the car off and i turned it on while logging...not sure if i stopped it then started logging once the car was on...

Last edited by nor11384; Nov 10, 2017 at 05:20 PM.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2017, 10:00 PM   #11
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
 
letsgetthisdone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 9,407
Thanked 349 Times in 332 Posts

Drives: 2005 Evo 8. 2011 F150 FX4

AFR's have to be in the single digits to cause issues. You're not hurting anything.

Since you have a cable, pull your rom and post it, myself or razor can take a look at it, see if it's been put into open loop full time.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2017, 04:33 AM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 28
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

Drives: VIII MR

In that last log your AFR's didn't move even with 70% + TPS. Was it the same on your guage?

I wanna agree with letsgetthisdone. seems like its in openloop, but i'd say the tune needs a bit of work given those timing numbers just at idle.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2017, 09:10 AM   #13
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 561
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
On my gauge the afrs do move. It would read low 13s but it’ll fluctuate. After about 40 min or so I wanna say idling they went up to 13.8 - 14.2 and jump around in that area. It’s actualky the best I’ve seen it in a while. Guys explain to me how much does the tune depend on the iat sensor? I noticed after like 20 min idling iat temp was at like 68 and temp outside was maybe in high 70s. I wiggled the connection and when I looked at the comp it had jumped up by 2 points. Also, letsgetthisdone how do I pull the rom? ecuflash right? If you tell me how I’ll do it.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2017, 11:46 AM   #14
Evolved Member
 
mines5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Streets of willow
Posts: 687
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

Drives: Evo7, Evo 8 GSR, GT-R

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorlab View Post
Did you uncheck the trims when logging? They are logged for a little bit then go to zero.

Knock sum is wack for a while too then goes fine.

Seems like something going on with your logging....
Exactly -- TPS and RPM at the start of the log had me scratching my head.
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2017, 11:53 AM   #15
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 561
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Guys I may have started logging with the key in the on position and turned the car on while logging...I was having issues with the computer recognizing the cable so when it finally connected I turned the car on and left it...this may be why the first couple of seconds it read weird? Spoke to the tuner and he said it should have closed and open loop...but my second tuner fixed what the first one did so I think this is a case of too many hands in the cookie jar...I’ll try to post the rom on here let’s see ignore I can figure it out without ****ing anything up...once again thank you so much to those who are always willing to help...I’ve learned a lot in this forum...
Offline
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rich Idle and Cruise - Data Log Attached duranvw Evo General 8 Oct 19, 2016 12:36 PM
LTFTs are 0 after switching back to 93 from e85 turbotaloon95 General Engine Management / Tuning Forum 29 Jul 12, 2016 08:42 AM
LTFTs are 0 after switching back to 93 from e85 turbotaloon95 EcuFlash 5 Jul 11, 2016 07:54 AM
Help, Sever issue at idle, Logs only show ISCV steps out of line NO CEL CODES Raceghost EcuFlash 10 Jun 17, 2016 05:05 PM
Fueling issue. PLEASE HELP. Possible Tune, possible mechanical failure. Raceghost EcuFlash 22 Jun 1, 2016 01:30 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:51 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: