When the new UTEC firmware comes out , it seems that the fuel map will be changed over to an absolute system over the current percentage change system.

It was reported in a thread by Shiv of Vishnu that the EVO ECU changes fueling according to engine load / gear selected :

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=90818
I personally have seen this happening in my utec logs because whatever AFR I tune to in 3rd gear , it is usually a further half point or more richer in 4th gear ( eg 11.5 A/F in 3rd goes to 11.0 in 4th at same rpm ).
It seems others have also seen this happening :
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=92263


So my questions are :

Will the new firmware support gear specific maps ? - Or allow an across the board "richening factor" to be applied as we go up the gears ?

If it will not support them , will they be supported in the future ???

Do we really need gear specific mapping ?? ( I personally think yes - would like to hear arguments against it )

 

I also have a question that is similar in lines...Does the current UTEC flash or the future flash bypass the secondary fuel map of the stock ECU? If not, then the values that we are placing in the fuel tables won't mean a damn thing! In other words, the UTEC is crap if we go into high detonation mode (secondary ECU MAP).

-chris

 

in open loop fueling, your map is pretty absolute, it doesn't use any of the ECU's fuel map.. However it does have a very functional knock feature (works as well as stock)

Keep in mind you don't have to use open loop fueling, you can use MAF Offset..

However gear based maps in the factory ECU is not entirely true.. maps are load based, and therefore will somewhat reflect the gearing since RPM and Engine load are affected by gear.. The factory ECU does not have any gear reference to tell it what gear its in.
it can infer what gear its in by comparing engine speed and vehicle speed.. But the load is what the maps are based on.. its just optimizing your load sites for different gears..


It can tell if your using the clutch or brake, it controls the A/C, Idle control, Electric Fans, etc..

I think people are putting too much emphasis on the secondary map.. Poor tuning or too much boost is the main reason you would go into a high detonation map.. Occasionally bad gas can cause a problem, but thats rare, and you *CAN* switch to a different map or switch to stock mode if you find there's a problem.. But the UTEC's knock features do work well, and do catch detonation, and its configurable (its currently as sensitive as stock)

This doesn't mean that this feature will not be implemented if there is enough demand for it.. But its like any other tuning tool.. Its a tool, and as such, it can be used correctly, or used incorrectly, and the damage caused is a direct result...

Now.. With that said.. In open loop fueling, you do have absolute control over the fuel injectors, so it will not go into a low power map of the factory ECU..

Again.. LOAD SPECIFIC mapping is what the factory ECU (And most of the standalones and some piggybacks) offers.. Engine load, RPM, Airflow, Injector duty, coolant temp, all of those things play a role in what load cell the factory ECU picks.. and its pretty much the same for the UTEC.

You will find that engine load has a big effect on AFR's, but you may find that your actually in a different load site at the same RPM.. In that case, you need to refine the maps a little.

This actually brings up a good point.. Tuning is an evolving process, and the things your noticing about the AFR's being different in different gears is a good reason why its preferrable to road tune and log your data.. Dyno pulls are good for measuring peak horsepower, or getting a rough map to work from.. But its the logging of data in different pulls that will allow you to refine your map..

2 hours on the dyno and 10 or so pulls is not enough time to do a tune that must work well in all situations.. And actually the best tunes that run the best on the streets, aren't always all that impressive on the dyno..

 

I hope that wasn't too confusing an explanation, I know I addressed several things at the same time..

For what its worth.. When I do logging for tuning.. I do a full run through 4th gear.. then do a partial pull in 5th gear..

I refine my maps using second and third gear pulls since those will reflect a majority of the "power needs" that is, those are the two gears you'd most frequently be in if your doing a passing maneuver or running through the gears on a track.. First gear is short, and should more or less reflect similar traits of a second gear pull.. 4th gear ends up being a little richer than third, but thats a good thing, its a bit of a margin of safety (Lowers EGT's slightly)

and I rarely need to come back and refine for 5th gear, its also too dangerous to do a full pull to redline in 5th gear to really do a close comparison, but in the few times I've gotten a few high speed runs, they didn't appear that much different and didn't require refining the map much (except for a little tweak to timing)

 

You still didn't answer my question. Do you even know? What you said is understandable. However, the values that we are placing in the UTEC are referenced for the primary ECU MAP. Now, during tuning you can have a few slipups and cause the ECU to momentarily go into the secondary ECU MAP, thereby running the fuel maps for that particular table. The funny thing is, you may be trying to tune based on data logs that were derived during that process!!! All I'm looking for is an easy, single syllable answer. No explanations needed. BTW, there shouldn't be a demand for it. It should be a standard feature..at least be able to define, with the UTEC, what parameters need to be met before the OEM ECU to switch into secondary ECU mapping. It's not difficult. IT NEEDS TO BE DONE, if it isn't already. IF it is not then all UTEC owners need to be in an uproar. Guys what this all means is...if the tune you are running is bypassed by the ECU and goes into secondary ECU mapping, the your tune is rendered USELESS! You have just tuned for NOTHING, your parameters are rendered null.

-chris

 

Anything that uses MAF offset will be affected by the ECU, so its possible it can slip into the secondary fuel map.. However I DID clearly state that with open loop fueling (the new firmware) It does not use the factory maps at all, so it will not slip into the secondary map.

Sorry if it wasn't explicit, I was trying to answer two questions at the same time.

You are right about the tune being affected, but the bigger factor is the TIMING with these maps.. not fuel.. and the timing modifications are absolute so if you do set your timing, it will not slip into the secondary timing map in the areas you have mapped your timing..

Currently fuel control is MAF intercept, so in theory it could be affected by it.. but I am using the new firmware now as a beta tester, and it does not use the factory ECU fuel maps at all unless you choose to pass through.. Therefore it will NEVER slip into the secondary.

Hope this answers your question.. IT really does function more like a standalone than a piggyback in that respect..


FWIW, the factory ECU doesn't necessarily jump to one map or the other.. depending on conditions it may interpolate settings in between.. the Upcoming firmware is unaffected by it..

again.. the new firmware DIRECTLY CONTROLS THE FUEL INJECTORS, if you use open loop fueling, the factory ECU has no influence on fuel control, and if you set timing parameters, the current and upcoming Firmware controls timing with no influence from the ECU..

There are fuel/timing enrichment parameters you can configure in the UTEC, I haven't used them yet, but I think they can be configured for (coolant?) temps that are higher than normal to prevent heat related detonation.


I'm not quite sure if your trying to prove a point, or ask a question.. but there's no need to be combative.. the UTEC with the newest firmware will not be influenced by the ECU's maps.. primary or secondary..

 

chris, you are correct in what you are trying to say. I spoke to Al at the Socal evo day at XS Engineering. 125 evos, anyways, what you need to do if you are not confident that your ecu swaps maps, and it does swap, and it will change tuning, is to send your ECU to Dynoflash and have Al program both maps to be IDENTICLE then when it changes its still the same map. This will fix your worries, or you can listen to Jack and wait for the new software. Ray

 

Jack...combative? You know me not...assume nothing. I've been in this tuning game for quite sometime, albeit in the supercharged Mustang world. I can tell when someone is walking around an issue or when they truly know what they are talking about. I may be knew to the EVO world and to this site, but not to the world of making power and ECU tuning.

To be honest, I was looking for a response from the vendor who is supposed to know. Not from one of the advocate chronies. No offense.

 

I don't understand. He answered your question and you are still being rude?
If you wanted an answer from Turbo-XS crowd why not call the customer support and ask?

 

I wanted a public answer. I'm not trying to be rude...thanks for being so forward and pointing it out. As of yet, I still don't have one!

 

Hmm, I guess you'll just have to get the answer your looking for from someone who actually knows something.. I obviously don't.

 

It's obvious you do know...now that you have the new flash. The rest of us don't. Anyway, I just wanted the answer from TXS due to an answer I was given on the phone. It just wasn't very assuring when I called them. Jack, it's nice that you step up and try to help the guys on the board. Unfortunately, you got snagged in my web. I hate to use that term, but like I said, the answer TXS gave me on the phone just didn't settle well.

 

Web.. No pun intended eh? As long as you got your answer, then I'm happy..

 

Chris, i gave you the solution to your problem. Now go sell your crap elswhere........We all aint buyin' RRR

 

We? Got a mouse in your pocket?