New Supra Specs and Pricing
Jan 17, 2019, 06:35 PM
#91
Civics used to be great track cars, due to the double wishbone setup. Once they went to struts... well, they do okay, but I've never heard them being bragged about like before. The CTR is an exception but that has a fancier setup, so....
We were sad when they went to the strut.
We were sad when they went to the strut.
Jan 17, 2019, 06:44 PM
#92
Civics used to be great track cars, due to the double wishbone setup. Once they went to struts... well, they do okay, but I've never heard them being bragged about like before. The CTR is an exception but that has a fancier setup, so....
We were sad when they went to the strut.
We were sad when they went to the strut.
Jan 17, 2019, 06:53 PM
#93
everything about this statement is false. one can argue that a good mcstrut setup is harder to setup/design to keep it from losing camber on compression like a cheap/crap mcstrut design. a cheap/crap is easy, but its crap... and the exact opposite is true about which setup is more picky about ride height and roll centers. On top of that, McStrut setups are a lot more sensitive to scrub radius changes
like I said above, the only cons of a double wishbone setup is costs and space.
like I said above, the only cons of a double wishbone setup is costs and space.
Jan 18, 2019, 08:44 AM
#94
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
I would agree to disagree. There is a lot less going on with a strut setup since you are missing a top arm. The top arm is the strut. Have you ever designed a double wishbone setup from scratch? I have. It really sucked. Example, you raise the mounting point on the top arm one inch. Camber gain, camber drop, bump steer and roll center all change at the same time. I do agree that the mcstrut setup is more sensitive to scrub radius since it pivots on the strut/top arm.
Double wishbone is superior, end of story. Yes, there are "improved" mcstrut systems, but they still aren't as good as properly designed double wishbone. This is why all purpose built race cars use double wishbone.
Jan 18, 2019, 09:07 AM
#95
EvoM Community Team Leader
straight from wikipedia
"The double wishbone suspension provides the engineer more design choices than some other types do. It is fairly easy to work out the effect of moving each joint, so the kinematics of the suspension can be tuned easily and wheel motion can be optimized. It is also easy to work out the loads that different parts will be subjected to which allows more optimised lightweight parts to be designed. They also provide increasing negative camber gain all the way to full jounce travel, unlike the MacPherson strut, which provides negative camber gain only at the beginning of jounce travel and then reverses into positive camber gain at high jounce amounts."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double...one_suspension
"The double wishbone suspension provides the engineer more design choices than some other types do. It is fairly easy to work out the effect of moving each joint, so the kinematics of the suspension can be tuned easily and wheel motion can be optimized. It is also easy to work out the loads that different parts will be subjected to which allows more optimised lightweight parts to be designed. They also provide increasing negative camber gain all the way to full jounce travel, unlike the MacPherson strut, which provides negative camber gain only at the beginning of jounce travel and then reverses into positive camber gain at high jounce amounts."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double...one_suspension
Jan 18, 2019, 09:11 AM
#96
Same goes for mcstrut if you move any mounts around...lol. For example, moving the top of the strut backwards for more caster causes bumpsteer changes.
Double wishbone is superior, end of story. Yes, there are "improved" mcstrut systems, but they still aren't as good as properly designed double wishbone. This is why all purpose built race cars use double wishbone.
Double wishbone is superior, end of story. Yes, there are "improved" mcstrut systems, but they still aren't as good as properly designed double wishbone. This is why all purpose built race cars use double wishbone.
Jan 18, 2019, 12:41 PM
#98
I didn't think of this till I read it, I mean yes, obviously Toyota outsourced the car... but maybe the reason for the no manual option is because bmw wanted to keep that part to itself... not willing to share to make sure that they get the enthusiast buyer...
Jan 18, 2019, 04:33 PM
#100
Evolved Member
So, if you are interested into getting into the BMW camp, is this a good entry point? We're talking initial price and price of parts. I once owned a Plymouth Laser which was also sold as an Eagle Talon and Mitsubishi Eclipse. My local Plymouth dealer didn't stock parts but they were good about ordering until Plymouth disappeared. I wonder how Toyota will be in this regard. Once out of warranty Toyota might be a pocketbook friendlier place for service than BMW.
Jan 18, 2019, 06:00 PM
#101
So, if you are interested into getting into the BMW camp, is this a good entry point? We're talking initial price and price of parts. I once owned a Plymouth Laser which was also sold as an Eagle Talon and Mitsubishi Eclipse. My local Plymouth dealer didn't stock parts but they were good about ordering until Plymouth disappeared. I wonder how Toyota will be in this regard. Once out of warranty Toyota might be a pocketbook friendlier place for service than BMW.
Jan 19, 2019, 04:30 AM
#102
Evolved Member
All you Americaaans are missing the point, this car hasnt been built for tuner car heads like you guys, its a marketing exercise created by millenials, aimed at rich kids who used to play computer games in which the supra was always faster and on youtube the supra is always faster!!! OK now they get the chance for daddy to buy them a Supra and park it at highschool and all the other kids go hey thats fully sick dude just like on the fast and the furious dude way cool. That's it ok nothing more, they sell a couple of mil around the world then cease production, job well done, now lets go create a new Celica turbo SUV next and so on and on and on it goes!!!
Jan 19, 2019, 04:44 AM
#103
All you Americaaans are missing the point, this car hasnt been built for tuner car heads like you guys, its a marketing exercise created by millenials, aimed at rich kids who used to play computer games in which the supra was always faster and on youtube the supra is always faster!!! OK now they get the chance for daddy to buy them a Supra and park it at highschool and all the other kids go hey thats fully sick dude just like on the fast and the furious dude way cool. That's it ok nothing more, they sell a couple of mil around the world then cease production, job well done, now lets go create a new Celica turbo SUV next and so on and on and on it goes!!!
Jan 19, 2019, 05:20 AM
#104
EvoM Community Team Leader
All you Americaaans are missing the point, this car hasnt been built for tuner car heads like you guys, its a marketing exercise created by millenials, aimed at rich kids who used to play computer games in which the supra was always faster and on youtube the supra is always faster!!! OK now they get the chance for daddy to buy them a Supra and park it at highschool and all the other kids go hey thats fully sick dude just like on the fast and the furious dude way cool. That's it ok nothing more, they sell a couple of mil around the world then cease production, job well done, now lets go create a new Celica turbo SUV next and so on and on and on it goes!!!
I think if anything this car is for millennials who grew up with the Supra and don't have kids. Most of the stuff that puts the Supra on my radar is drag racing related, and in that context a slush box makes perfect sense.
Last edited by Biggiesacks; Jan 19, 2019 at 05:31 AM.
Jan 19, 2019, 09:40 AM
#105
I have, its not that complicated. No worse than a proper MacStrut level of analysis and variable balance. I can get a full deg of camber gain per inch on an Evo if I want with slider axis angles, but I also would have Yuuuugggee SAI.
Finding the supra as MacStrut, which I called from the first spy pics I saw of it on track, was a big let down. Though at the end of the day, most Double wishbone setups from the factory are pretty comprimised by space and other needs. You have to look at basically a miata or lotus to find a good starting point. Though I would still rather work with double wishbone as a baseline.
Finding the supra as MacStrut, which I called from the first spy pics I saw of it on track, was a big let down. Though at the end of the day, most Double wishbone setups from the factory are pretty comprimised by space and other needs. You have to look at basically a miata or lotus to find a good starting point. Though I would still rather work with double wishbone as a baseline.