Buyer Beware:workel2man911
Jul 9, 2013, 09:05 AM
#1
Buyer Beware:workel2man911
So I bought a set of "slightly used, less than 1k" gsc s2 cams from workel2man911 back in december. It was a smooth transaction, the pictures he posted looked good, and the price was right. When I received the cams, I just kinda gave them a once-over while they were still in the plastic packaging, and then put them on the shelf in my garage for later install. (i didnt feel the need to examine them super closely, since the pictures looked good).
Fast forward to last weekend, the evo broke down on me....turns out the balance shaft belt broke, which took out the crank position sensor. Once I pulled the timing cover off to replace the balance belt and timing belt and sensor, i noticed a had jumped 2 teeth of time. So, time to pull the head off and check the valves, and I figure, what the heck....this is a good time to install those s2 cams that I have been waiting to install.
thread:https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...n-morning.html
Anyhow, I remove the used cams from the packaging and start to attach my stock cam gears, and I notice that there is scarring/damage on a couple of the lobes on the exhaust cam. It looks as though something got in between the rocker and the lobe, as the entire lobe has been pitted/corroded. (I have pictures, just need to figure out how to post them)
I contacted the seller (workel2man911) and offered to ship them back to him on my dime for a full refund, as I did not want to run these cams in my car. He basically told me to pound sand, that they were in good condition when he shipped them, and obviously I have done something to them. THESE WERE NEVER INSTALLED IN MY CAR! Maybe someone on here can help, but it looks as if I will be eating the bill for a couple of expensive paperweights.
Sorry for the long write up. A friend helping me with the install can vouch that these were never in my car, he is a member on NAGTROC, username JMH-GTR.
I will be much more cautious in the future about making big purchases on here...looks like my faith and trust in people screwed me over this time
Fast forward to last weekend, the evo broke down on me....turns out the balance shaft belt broke, which took out the crank position sensor. Once I pulled the timing cover off to replace the balance belt and timing belt and sensor, i noticed a had jumped 2 teeth of time. So, time to pull the head off and check the valves, and I figure, what the heck....this is a good time to install those s2 cams that I have been waiting to install.
thread:https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...n-morning.html
Anyhow, I remove the used cams from the packaging and start to attach my stock cam gears, and I notice that there is scarring/damage on a couple of the lobes on the exhaust cam. It looks as though something got in between the rocker and the lobe, as the entire lobe has been pitted/corroded. (I have pictures, just need to figure out how to post them)
I contacted the seller (workel2man911) and offered to ship them back to him on my dime for a full refund, as I did not want to run these cams in my car. He basically told me to pound sand, that they were in good condition when he shipped them, and obviously I have done something to them. THESE WERE NEVER INSTALLED IN MY CAR! Maybe someone on here can help, but it looks as if I will be eating the bill for a couple of expensive paperweights.
Sorry for the long write up. A friend helping me with the install can vouch that these were never in my car, he is a member on NAGTROC, username JMH-GTR.
I will be much more cautious in the future about making big purchases on here...looks like my faith and trust in people screwed me over this time
Jul 10, 2013, 10:02 AM
#3
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Issue number 1 is you waited 8 months to thoroughly review parts you bought used. No one can prove you did or did not damage the cams after such a long period of time.
Jul 10, 2013, 10:46 AM
#5
I realize much of the problem is my fault, since I did not throughly inspect the cams upon receiving them. Shame on me, I get it. But the facts still remain the same....this seller sold me an item supposedly in like new condition, and that was just not the case. Luckily, MAP had a set of cams in stock and was able to overnight them to me so I could continue the install.....but I am still stuck with a set of cams that I paid good money for, that I dont want to put in my car. I guess there is no way to prove I never installed them, but I can reference some posts of mine from weeks back that would lead you to believe it is true:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...cams-maps.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/10876206-post6.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/10876175-post27.html
Also, jdavenport and reaperx were at Road Atlanta with me in June, and I am sure they can attest tot he fact that these cams were not in my car.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...cams-maps.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/10876206-post6.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/10876175-post27.html
Also, jdavenport and reaperx were at Road Atlanta with me in June, and I am sure they can attest tot he fact that these cams were not in my car.
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Aug 26, 2013, 04:08 AM
#8
Just make sure you thoroughly inspect the pump IMMEDIATELY. Maybe even try to install or check with a multimeter when it arrives. I trusted this guy to sell me an item as described, so I didnt feel the need to check every lobe on the cams.......do NOT make the same mistake as me.
Aug 26, 2013, 06:53 AM
#9
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I have sold to this member, as well as purchased an item or two from him. No issues on either end.
Honestly I see the area (looks like it was just dropped) you are talking about, if you can't catch that area with your fingernail, then run the cam. The roller rocker is wide enough that you are only missing about 10% of the contact area in that tiny little spot.
Grant
Honestly I see the area (looks like it was just dropped) you are talking about, if you can't catch that area with your fingernail, then run the cam. The roller rocker is wide enough that you are only missing about 10% of the contact area in that tiny little spot.
Grant
Aug 26, 2013, 08:57 AM
#10
I have sold to this member, as well as purchased an item or two from him. No issues on either end.
Honestly I see the area (looks like it was just dropped) you are talking about, if you can't catch that area with your fingernail, then run the cam. The roller rocker is wide enough that you are only missing about 10% of the contact area in that tiny little spot.
Grant
Honestly I see the area (looks like it was just dropped) you are talking about, if you can't catch that area with your fingernail, then run the cam. The roller rocker is wide enough that you are only missing about 10% of the contact area in that tiny little spot.
Grant
Aug 26, 2013, 11:22 AM
#11
Just proceed with caution.
Aug 26, 2013, 01:18 PM
#12
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Those cams came out of a 100% running car that had no issues the only reason i got rid of them is because i decided to go with a kelford 288. When i posted the thread i took close up pictures of the cams and wrote up a accurate description of the cams. When you purchased them i packaged them up into i believe is was the gsc box that they came in or the kelford box that my new cams came in and i rubbed down the whole cam with the install lube so that in shipping there would be no types of moisture to get to the bare metal then wrapped it in the plastic and that green netting that they come new with and packed them the exact same way that gsc/kelford pack theirs. Now if there was such damage that you are describing done to the cams that i sold you why wouldent i have noticed that when i was spinning the cam in my hand full of oil?
Because i am positive that there was no damage to the cams. Now you have had the cams in your possession for more the 6-7 months. When you just get done spending 400+ dollars on a new part for your car what do you do when you receive it? Open it and see what you got! Now 6-7 months later the cams have been through who knows what you decide to "install" them and something is wrong with them. How can you hold me accountable for who knows what happened to them within that time period? If you had a issue with something within the first month or so i would be able to work with you but more then a half of a year has gone by its extremely hard to believe thats how you received them from me.
Because i am positive that there was no damage to the cams. Now you have had the cams in your possession for more the 6-7 months. When you just get done spending 400+ dollars on a new part for your car what do you do when you receive it? Open it and see what you got! Now 6-7 months later the cams have been through who knows what you decide to "install" them and something is wrong with them. How can you hold me accountable for who knows what happened to them within that time period? If you had a issue with something within the first month or so i would be able to work with you but more then a half of a year has gone by its extremely hard to believe thats how you received them from me.
Last edited by workel2man911; Aug 26, 2013 at 06:00 PM.
Aug 26, 2013, 02:57 PM
#13
^^ workel2man911's got some good points there...
Take some better pics of the damage. Is grooving on the lobes the extent of the damage? How many lobes? How wide/thick are the grooves? Pics next to one of the rollers for comparison of the area affected? Any cracks, dents, nicks, galling (inadequate lubrication)? If groves is the extent of the damage, I may take these off your hands if you're willing...For the right price of course.
Take some better pics of the damage. Is grooving on the lobes the extent of the damage? How many lobes? How wide/thick are the grooves? Pics next to one of the rollers for comparison of the area affected? Any cracks, dents, nicks, galling (inadequate lubrication)? If groves is the extent of the damage, I may take these off your hands if you're willing...For the right price of course.
Aug 27, 2013, 04:27 AM
#14
Those cams came out of a 100% running car that had no issues the only reason i got rid of them is because i decided to go with a kelford 288. When i posted the thread i took close up pictures of the cams and wrote up a accurate description of the cams. When you purchased them i packaged them up into i believe is was the gsc box that they came in or the kelford box that my new cams came in and i rubbed down the whole cam with the install lube so that in shipping there would be no types of moisture to get to the bare metal then wrapped it in the plastic and that green netting that they come new with and packed them the exact same way that gsc/kelford pack theirs. Now if there was such damage that you are describing done to the cams that i sold you why wouldent i have noticed that when i was spinning the cam in my hand full of oil?
Because i am positive that there was no damage to the cams. Now you have had the cams in your possession for more the 6-7 months. When you just get done spending 400+ dollars on a new part for your car what do you do when you receive it? Open it and see what you got! Now 6-7 months later the cams have been through who knows what you decide to "install" them and something is wrong with them. How can you hold me accountable for who knows what happened to them within that time period? If you had a issue with something within the first month or so i would be able to work with you but more then a half of a year has gone by its extremely hard to believe thats how you received them from me.
Because i am positive that there was no damage to the cams. Now you have had the cams in your possession for more the 6-7 months. When you just get done spending 400+ dollars on a new part for your car what do you do when you receive it? Open it and see what you got! Now 6-7 months later the cams have been through who knows what you decide to "install" them and something is wrong with them. How can you hold me accountable for who knows what happened to them within that time period? If you had a issue with something within the first month or so i would be able to work with you but more then a half of a year has gone by its extremely hard to believe thats how you received them from me.
My son was born and placed in the ICU (premature lung disorder) immediately after purchasing these, FYI. So your whole point about why I didnt thoroughly inspect them and "rush to install them", doesn't really fit....I had alot of other stuff going on in my life and had no intention of installing those cams until I built the block, just jumped on what appeared to be a good deal.
You did take pictures of the cams, I actually went back and looked again at the original thread......the lobes you took pictures of look good. However your pictures did not capture the damaged lobes, intentional or not? I don't know.
And yes, they were packaged extremely well in the original gsc packaging, so not likely shipping damage.
Look guys, I have said my peace.....slamming this guy on the forums isn't going to repair my cams, and that was not my intention with this thread. Just wanted to make other users aware of a poor transaction with this seller.
Aug 27, 2013, 04:28 AM
#15
^^ workel2man911's got some good points there...
Take some better pics of the damage. Is grooving on the lobes the extent of the damage? How many lobes? How wide/thick are the grooves? Pics next to one of the rollers for comparison of the area affected? Any cracks, dents, nicks, galling (inadequate lubrication)? If groves is the extent of the damage, I may take these off your hands if you're willing...For the right price of course.
Take some better pics of the damage. Is grooving on the lobes the extent of the damage? How many lobes? How wide/thick are the grooves? Pics next to one of the rollers for comparison of the area affected? Any cracks, dents, nicks, galling (inadequate lubrication)? If groves is the extent of the damage, I may take these off your hands if you're willing...For the right price of course.
I will get some better pics of the damaged lobes when I get a chance....and yes I would be willing to sell them on the cheap.