Hi all,

I'm in the final stages on deciding on a car to buy shortly. Finalists are 2011 Sti and 2008 Evo X MR.

I'm 95% set on the Evo X for one simple reason. I want something exceptional, not just average and I want something reliable. Ive read countless discussions on here and over at Sti forums, and overall consensus is if u want performance, cheap and reliable moddability, then go Evo, so here I am.

My goals are simple. I want a car that throws makes my head hit the headrest when I push the accelerator, that has plenty highway passing power, and that it can do all this without major costly failures (eg SST) and that it will meet emissions and sound regs so that I don't have to remove hardware from the car and get a retune in case I move to a new province / state etc.

Considering this will be my first venture into the world of tuning and aftermarket modding, I want to mod the car once and forget about it for a while. I don't want to have to worry about things going wrong.

Hence, my plan is to get a staged kit and have the same place that actually manufactures the parts tune it too (or use an ots map). And I want the best of the best to work on the car, so I'm thinking to take the car either to AMS in west Chicago or Cobb down in Plano.

For $5500 and 400 whp the Cobb 400s seems the most appealing considering that recently they started installing SSP clutch packs and getting The 400s on MRs. I also read that they started removing the TPS 1st gear torque limiter.

That all sounds great, question is, will this setup last 100,000+ km? If it breaks, will a local shop be able to handle fixing the masterpiece done by one of the worlds best Evo shops? Cause I'm in Canada and Plano is in Texas....

The 400s seems in it's own league, and no wonder. With cams, bigger turbo, injectors and pump...

If the Evo community will tell me that the 400s is pushing it on an MR for the long term, I have absolutely no problem with 350 or less whp.

Next up would be the 350 whp (415 crank HP as stated on the AMS website) AMS stage 2 kit with stock injectors pump and turbo.

After this, we got basic bolt on level, ie Stage 2 Cobb or Stage 1 AMS both around the 280-320 whp range.

And finally, the tune only level I.e. Cobb stage 1 or AMS stage 0 with around 270-290 whp.

I'd love to hear peoples opinions and experiences with AMs vs Cobb and what's the best mod in your opinion as far as least number of hardware mods and most reliability. few 1000 $ difference between the various packages is not an issue for me. A 10000 SST tranny failing is an issue.

Thane in advance.
Tuor

 

Don't know if Cobb changed their policy, but the 400s kit is only for the GSR. That said, I have a 2010 SE with SST on the 400s kit. It's a great street setup. I do have an issue with S-SPORT in auto mode not changing gears, Cobb told me to bring it in but I haven't yet. My car has only 3000 miles, so cant vouch for longevity. Since AMS is much closer to you, if I was in your shoes I would consider that route. However, if you read carefully, the AMS kit has a larger turbo and to maximize its potential you will run at higher revs probably needing their full kit which upgrades the pistons and rods and is close to $20K.

 

I had a long convo about this with a friend today.
Perhaps I should just be happy with a Stage 1 AP flash considering that reliability is a bigger priority for me than more power...
Or else, just get an e92 m3 and not have a need to mod it at all...

 

M3s actually don't feel strong at all with very low peak torque and very high peak torque RPM. I'd bet you would not like it. Well, a Corvette, on the other hand, would definitely satisfy that need for power

 

I would stick with an Evo... talk to some of the best tuners in here and they will say the extra .5L is nice and a boxer on the ground is fun, but there are cookey things you have to do to tune them.

Installing a turbo on these cars really isn't *that* big of a deal, however the camshaft job is pretty hard on the X since it has a timing chain.

I would recommend an Evo with full bolt ons (no turbo or cams) and a good tune. You don't need to be a genius to install those parts, so any decent shop can do it... but obviously there are plenty of handicapped mechanics out there. AMS can do an email flash for your car.

Also, I think the 400s kit is suggesting 400 crank horsepower as a loose figure... I don' think you are going to get 400 out of it without alternative fuels, but I could be wrong. There is a dyno chart on Cobb's site for reference.

 

Oozkarao,
I test drove the M3 twice. I agree, it feels slightly weak when you slam on the accelerator, but the engine revs so quick and so high, that while you are distracted from the melody of the 4.0 V8, you are already at 8300 RPM and going warp-speed. It certainly feels light-years faster than the stock Evo, stock STI, the e46 M3, Porsche 911 996, 335i, and 135i that I test drove. Only thing that compares with it is the 5.0 Stang. And no wonder...it's also got 412 HP and same weight.

I agree about the Vettes...I'd already own one, if I didnt live in Canada. Vettes dont do well with several feet of snow...

Fostytou,
I am thinking along the same lines. Camshafts, injectors, fuel pumps and bigger turbos sound like "serious" mods that would seem to me push the car closer to its limits, hence probably higher chance of something going wrong, and more things to remove in case you ever have to go back to stock...

So I'm thinking the AMS Stage 2 seems the best trade-off. It produced 415 HP to the crank (so similar to the FQ-400...which Mitsu created officially without any mods to the engine/tranny) and is made of bolt-onls only. Stock injectors, pump, cams and turbo. And it's only 4500$ for parts.

Btw, the 400S package is 400 Wheel HP. They advertize a 160 WHP gain over stock...it's a serious kit...

and if I were not worried about the SST being pushed to it's limits...even with SSP clutch packs...I'd seriusly consider it....

 

Hey, ive had my evo mr for the spring and summer.. fall is here. new set of wheels with studded tires are here(going on friday as well as rad flush *had water + water wetter in for the track days) getting to the point of my comments.. I've had quite the summer with the car. 4 track days 9 auto x events. one set of tires down to the cords. going on my 4th oil change this coming week. 7900km the car seems bomb proof so far. i have some cobb parts as well as cobb AP running the cosworth panel 93 stage 1 tune. the cobb access port does it's performance dyno thing.. it claims my car is in the high 280's for both hp and tq... although it does range.. it's said as high as 338 as low as 282 not sure if it's how i start the data log or what. i dont even have exhaust yet and the car is running amazing. i pretty much only use it in manual s-sport mode unless i really want to romp on it then i slide the shifter over to auto and consentrate on the road infront of me.

i'm planning on doing exhuast, intercooler, cobb cams, cobb springs and retainers with arp studs (only cuz their cheaper and rated nearly the same)
after which will be getting a protune. the local tuner says he's tuned some evo x's and ralliarts and says the dyno he uses reports that the clutches do slip for him when things start going over 330awhp. and about the same in torque.

in concusion.. for your goals i think with the clutch packs from ssp and the quality of product from cobb.. you will get the car you want.

i've seriously driven this car hard this summer.. on a realy HOT HOT track day i had the tranny over heat while in super sport auto.. but as soon as i started shifting on my own my lap times were virtually the same and no over heating issues. the tranny hasn't broken or even showing signs of it breaking (at the moment)

ps i'm also from Canada .. alberta actually. my hp/tq goal is 300-350 94 husky gas with bolt on's and a good tune. with a couple supporting mods.. fuel, spark etc etc..

i plan on attending the Kelowna "knox mountain" Hill climb next may. buy the x you wont be disipointed !

 

Injectors and fuel pumps are incredibly easy mods... but the stock fuel pump is very capable if you plan to stick with pump gas. Stock injectors are fine if you aren't running more than 90% duty cycle.
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You can see the dyno on their site that I linked to doesn't even put it at 400whp. It peaks at ~360tq and ~380hp. That last 20hp is hard to eek out at that point. It is definitely a serious kit with cams and a turbo, but still doesn't crack 400 pump.

Sounds like you are getting some good work on her!

FYI we now have some ability to tune more clutch pressure in. There is another thread here explaining some of the SST parameters with graphs of slip.

Also, I don't really know anything about it but isn't Husky gas supposed to be really bad? I swear I've seen more than 1 thread with alot of replies on that topic.

 

You may be right, but there is nothing better around here.. jon has me on the ACN tunes 91 and 93 no knock.. so far. the tuner shops around here also say they get better numbers from the husky than the shell. if shell or sunoco etc sold some 93 or better in calgary i'm sure that's what everyone would use.

btw.. how is cheveron? or is that the same as husky?

Also Yes i have read about the clutch pressure threads.. however there arn't any detailed instructions for tuning with ATR and i still have yet to figure it out/too scared to blow up my car. I'll be taking the car in for a protune and hopefully the tech know's about the cluth pressure info.

 

dont worry about the clutch pressure issue the alpha maps i posted have them upped a bit

 

I love it when folks complain about the torque in the M3 when people that have actually owned the car would know that starting from a standstill you can barely keep traction in first. This car is made for racing on a track not drag racing between lights.

RWD is also a lot more fun then AWD.

 

Reviving an old thread, I was looking for something else and came across this. I thought I'd add my two cents in since I own a 2011 MR with a COBB 400s kit tuned at COBB Plano.

Opinions are like *******s, everyone has them.

Long story short, I made 391 awhp with a stock exhaust but with a COBB downpipe and COBB high flow cat on 91 octane (they ran my dyno before I could add in 93 octane).
I now use 96 octane (I just moved to Europe)
You dont need to upgrade the clutch packs, new intel now says the MR is good til 500 awhp before really needing it.
I also considered an M3 and a Vette but honestly I wanted an awd so it boiled down to the Sti and the Evo. (Almost got a used GT-R but I wanted money to mod )
I got my first Evo and as I soon as I hit 1k miles to break her in, I took her to COBB.
Every time I look back and think about the classy, pompous M3 I could be driving, I go for a drive and remind myself why I chose the Evo.