peter*g

iTrader: (55)

I've decided to convert my car over to gravel specs so I can go play in Rally America, California Rally Series, etc. With that I was hoping for some guidance from you rally regulars with regards to some parts and where to get them.

Questions should be easy:

- What brakes are you running?

- What wheels/tires are you running?

- How did you protect the underbody?

Any advice (and recommendations on sources for parts) would be appreciated.

DaveK

iTrader: (21)

AMS Rally Brakes I've tried both the "B" compound Wilwood pads and PF 01s. Unless you're wanting to spend $4000+ on APs or Alcons, you won't be able to stick more brake under a 15" wheel. Stock rear calipers fit under at least 2 15" wheels...see below.

I have a mix of Compomotive TH3 and Team Dynamic Pro Rally wheels. The Compomotives are tougher, but almost 2x the price. There was a shot of one of the subaru guys at X-games who separated the rim from the spokes on the TD wheels...though he did hit a concrete barrier.

Tires...depends on your goals. For fastest tire, I've got to recommend the BFGs, but they're expensive and don't last all that long. They're $225 each (cheap by road race standards), but for a weekend of stage rally, you'll probably need to budget for 3 sets. If you're not worried about every last second, your options open up a bit. Yokohama, Silverstone, and Lassa are the other readily available tires in the US. Hankook is pulling out of the market here, so if you can get your hands on any, those are a good budget option.

When prepping the car on a rotiserrie, we flipped it over and bonded 2-3 layers of kevlar right to the body. After 2 seasons of hillclimbs, its starting to show its age, but its only worn thru in one 1x3" spot near the back of the floorpan.

Keep in mind I have yet to do a true stage rally with my Evo, as I use it for hillclimbs. It is built to RA and NASA rules, but I'm just a restrictor swap and spares & spill kit away from being ready to hit the stages.

One other thing I'd highly recommend is moving your oil cooler and ACD pump to safer locations. Its hard to protect them since they hang out at the corners of the car. I've relocated my ACD pump to behind the passenger seat (with approval from RA safety inspectors), and switched to a Mocal Oil/Water cooler which is mounted in the upper radiator hose. I had a slight 'off' last weekend, and the only thing I really damaged was the UICP where it comes off the IC....so if you can move the IC up out of the way, that'd help too. If you're going to run Open class, stay tuned, I may try to get a run of new radiators & ICs done that'll be a bit harder to damage on stage.

What do you have in mind for suspension?

Dave

PSG Evo

iTrader: (5)

Options for protecting the underbody is really limited for the Evo. The ones on the market are either too expensive or provide too little protection. Your best bet is to have one of your fabrication guy build the pieces for you (skidplate, driveshaft plate, and rear diff plate). If the fab guy can get his hands on a beatrush skidplate, use that as a template to find the right spots for the mounting points.

I know someone that's been building custom plates for Evo's in the East Coast. If you want, I can probably get a hold of the guy. It's pretty pricey but very nicely designed.

peter*g

iTrader: (55)

This is what I've discovered. I've been shopping around, and it sounds like I'm at ~3000GBP for all of the underbody protection (skidplates, diff/driveshaft plates, wheel arch protectors, floor guards, etc.). That's a lot of dough, even with the exchange rate not completely out of control.

If you fabricated the guards yourself, what did you use in the fender wells and on the underbody? Just plastic or somesuch thing?

peter*g

iTrader: (55)

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peter*g

iTrader: (55)

Thanks Dave. Your build is definitely my default "to do" list. I'm grateful you worked with AMS on those brakes. :-) Unfortunately I won't be stripping my chassis down, so no chance at doing the kevlar underbody like you did. I'll have to resort to bolt-ons.

Where do you buy your wheels and tires?

DaveK

iTrader: (21)

New BFGs I buy from John Buffam out of VT. He's got the best pricing I've found, but only by $10 or so. With you in Cali, you might have better luck with shops closer to home. Probably worth giving subesports.com a look.

Wheels I picked up used from Fourstarmotorsports.com, which is run by the Sprongl family. Great guys, BTW. Used parts are hit or miss in terms of availability, but on my budget, it was the only way I was going to get Compomotives. I picked up my Yokohamas (tarmac intermediates) from there as well for our record run at PPIHC in 2008.

Wheel arch protection - lots of guys (ACP included) use white HDPE for fender liners. I had the back half of the fender area covered in kevlar when the car was getting prepped, and I used the stock fenderliners for a bit. What you'll find is if you jump the Evo, when you land, the tire will contact the liner and suck it out of the car on short order. The kevlar stuff that's sold overseas is super pimp, but from what I've heard, some of the west coast rallies are so tough on the underside of the car that they'll need replacing after one or two events. Underbody protection is down low, so if you end up adding an extra 50# to the car to make it more reliable, I say its worth it.

I believe in my build thread I included pictures of my skidplate mount. Probably an hour or two of fab time, and $150 for some aluminum, one bend in the 1/4" plate and your done. I don't have a rear diff guard on the car currently, but do have thicker HDPE covering the gas tank (doubly protected, it's been kevlar'd as well) and partially shielding the diff.

Dave

jid2

iTrader: (62)

These guys have built lots of EVO rally cars, they know where to source all the parts. You could consider having them prep the chassis as well. They are in the Seattle area.

http://www.cascadeautosport.com/

DaveK

iTrader: (21)

Maybe I missed it, but what class do you plan on running? Stock turbo is good for running on a restrictor, but there are other options that are better.

Dave

peter*g

iTrader: (55)

I'm going to try to make the car legal for PGT.

DaveK

iTrader: (21)

You sure you can stomach the drop in power? After being in a ***** out road race car, it'll feel a bit slow at first with the restrictor. I believe the Evo can't be legal for PGT because of the brake downsizing issue, however there is a new class that was added called Super Production that you can go for.

I'm stuck in Open since it was easier to just build my car as it seemed to make sense rather than keeping it stock (i.e. brake lines inside the car, relocated ACD pump, etc.).

The Cascade guys are probably the top Evo prep shop in the US, but their work doesn't come cheap. I think when I inquired about cage prep, a 'no expenses spared build' for dropping the car off as a bare shell roller and picking up after roll cage install & paint (still as a shell) was in the neighborhood of $25k. This included the latest FIA approved cage, and all the misc upgrades like pin stands, welding all the holes in the floor shut, removing any unnecessary weight where legal, mounts for underbody protection etc. Looks like their website is back up and running, so you can see pics of their great workmanship & attention to detail!

Dave

RallyDSM

iTrader: (21)

I'm messing around with different brakes although the most recent I've used are the Wilwood Dynalight and with much success. In 2009 I was working with the EVO to fit into PGT and during that time, I ran the stock Brembos.

PADS - I highly recommend looking up a set of KFP pads for the EVO. We've used them on several other Rally cars over the years and they are the longest lasting, hardest biting pads that don't destroy rotors (like Bear pads). Ran them on my Celica GT4, my DSMs and on the Audi Quatro... ALL with great performance and life.

- What wheels/tires are you running?

WHEELS - Like Dave, I've been running compomotives for years. Highly recommend them thought they are expensive. Nice thing is, they are really strong and what you spend on one you would have spent on several others brands, so in the long run, they are way worth the money.

TIRES - I run Hankook's mostly. Some Michelin and Silverstones as well, but Hankooks are the tire of choice for me right now. Although, I am working with a foreign tire supplier and if that works out for import, I hope to be showing off some new sneakers here soon

- How did you protect the underbody?

I use HDPE (High Density Poly-Ethylene) for my skids. 1/2 inch under the motor and crossmemeber, mounted to a custom frame that ties into the factory mounting points and braces built under the front core support. Plus, we built a 1/8 wall round tube that is contoured into the front lip of the EVO so it looks fairly stock but you can actually lift the front of the car with the front bumper lip. Pretty cool. Then, bolt the HDPE material to the frame.

The rest of the underbody I do with 1/4 inch HDPE and self tapping sheet metal screws into the underbody.

Be sure to hand some 1/4 inch HDPE in FRONT of the rear arms too.... the aluminum can't take the gravel spray for too long before you will eat them up. We anchor the front edge of the HDPE to the underbody and then hand it down and back over the arms and tie them up to the back edge of the arms to allow for the flex and droop but to keep the gravel off of them. They are an expendable piece so come to terms with replacing these more often then the rest.

Two other points...

1 - HDPE is SLICK... it will take a big hit and then the rock or whatever will "slide" across it and not leave a huge dent for something else to grab ahold of later. That's a GOOD thing. Steel or aluminum plates will leave "catches" behind for next time.

2 - Fish Plate the HDPE. Whenever you have an overlap, make sure you overlap them in such a way that as you drag the ground under the car, front to rear, that there is nothing to catch. In other words, install the panels from the rear forward to ensure the fishplate.

Best of luck

Scott

peter*g

iTrader: (55)

Sorry, I actually meant super production. I'm sure the car will feel a lot slower than what I'm used to, but maybe that will let me learn something. :-)

My chassis is most of the way to being a rally car, so I don't need to bring it to anyone like Cascade. It won't be as fancy as what you built, but if I prove to be that fast on the roads then I'll spend the money to build an Open car at some point. My biggest concern is underbody protection, as we didn't need to think about any of that stuff when prepping for Targa.

peter*g

iTrader: (55)

KFP Golds I'm assuming? I road raced on those for a bit -- nice pad.

Where do you get them? Did you also get yours from Sprongl?


Glad to hear this works fine for you. Think this may be how I end up prepping the underside of the car.

Makkinen II

If you want an aluminum skidplate as opposed to a plastic one let me know. I think PSG Evo was refering to the guy who designed and built mine and has built the one for our EvoX rally car. If you want to talk to him let me know and I'll get you his contact info.

Have to agree with Dave on the AMS supplied wilwood set up. We just did a testing day with our EvoX which is a heavier car and they performed brilliantly. Also have to agree with dealing with 4star. Real good guys to talk to and very helpful. They also sell used tires if you want to do some practice before dumping all your money on new.

Good luck with everything.