johnnyfive

Hi, I'm a long time lurker of this forum and could use some advice for where to go next with my 2011 ralliart.

So far I have done all my events with this car completely stock (tires, suspension, alignment, etc.) and am now starting to wonder where to go next with it. I've finally worn the sidewalls off the stock advans after 20,000 miles and 5 events and have been shopping for tires and looking for a place to realign the car more aggressively for competition.

I not thinking of nationals but I do want to be near the top in at least PAX times in my local group. Of course I do realize that this is more in my driving hands as it is the car's. My last event I was first in my class of 2 versus a BMW 330xi (DS RTA class) but my main competitor in my class is a 2006 WRX wagon which I'm usually 4-5 seconds behind. He is currently on either Direzza star specs or Z1's. I was 26th in PAX last event and my best PAX so far has been 10th .

I originally thought of changing out the stock tires for Direzza zII's, getting an alignment and then just seeing how it goes from there and then continuing to refine my driving. However I'm starting to wonder whether other suspension modifications will be even more helpful. My most radical change would be to go to 17x8 rims (Enkei K1's) and using the BFG rivals (245/40/17) and being that that would put me in STU anyway, getting upper camber plates, or maybe even going to SM and using the GST basemap for some more power and suspension flexibility. My biggest would be competitor in SM right now (that is a regular) is a late 90's impreza with an STI swap and typically runs slicks. His car (not the regular driver was 9 seconds faster than me last event and we have been as close as 6 seconds apart a few times. He is also almost always in the top 10 in PAX time and also has had a few FTD's.

The top of the top in the region are: an STR class miata, the WRX in my class (DS RTA), a stock S2000, and occasionally the STI swapped impreza.

As you can tell from my rambling I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm hoping that someone who is more experienced in this sport can help me before I end up buying stuff for my car to make it less competitive and not more. My advans, aside from being terrible, will not last another event. I will need to do something before my next event on 8/11.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

1st and foremost you need to figure out what class you want to run in. Im a little confused as to where you stand right now. Are you in d-stock? I think for starters tires and an alignment will be best for you.

FYI did you mean to say that your main competitor the guy with the wrx wagon is on ZI's or ZII's bc Star Specs and ZI's are the same thing

Personally if you are looking to be competitive you will probably need to stick with a stock class. Once you step into STU or SM you are going to get smoked by VIII/IX's. I dont mean to come across as rude its just a fact.

A couple other random comments. How is the guy in a swapped Imprezza running SM? IIRC engine swaps throw you into X -Prepared. Others will be able to chime in for sure on this one but that's what I remember it to be at least.

All in all if you are not trying to compete nationally then just go out there and have some fun. Depending on how fat your wallet is sure the sky is the limit but control yourself. Start with some good rubber and a good alignment and practice practice practice

Ralliart004

iTrader: (5)

I would agree if you are in D-Stock no mods at all just a good alignment and tires let the pax do the work.

Most importantly HAVE FUN!


My worse mistake ever was going to the SM/STU class to fight.

Z Madness

+1 to stay in D Stock. You should focus on your driving on street tires as long as you can resist the urge to mod. Best is to get the biggest tire you can fit, good alignment, and possibly a sway bar for the front (not that sure about the Ralliart). You will be surprised how much better the car will respond to these few mods. Remember you can change rims but have to stay within limits to be eligible for stock class. Also note the future change to street tires in stock classes.

Other than that, I would spend some money on participating in a driving school like Evolution Performance. Probably the best bang for the buck after you had a couple of events under your belt. Good luck!

johnnyfive

I meant Z1's, I forgot they were also called star specs. Right now I am in the road tire class for D stock cars. DS RTA. That's what I'm running in right now.

The SM class allows engine swaps so long as the manufacturer matches the car's (subbie engines for subbies, honda's for honda's etc.) and as long as it's under 3.0L for forced induction. Section 18.1 D. of the SCCA solo book.

Funny enough the whole reason I started going down the road of changing everything was because I heard about the new street class and it allowing the changes to the rim size up or down 1 inch. The rivals (which I really wanted) are only in a usable size if I go to 17's (and every tire becomes 50-60 dollars cheaper). However, then I have to keep the same rim width. Well buying rims that aren't wider while I'm buying them is just dumb right? So then I looked into what class I'd be into once I did that and went to 8 inches with either the Kosei K1's or RPF1's. That bumps me to STU most likely, but then I can do other mods, but then I can't change boost, but what if I go SM, I change boost, coilovers, wider rims, bodywork....

I think what I might end up doing is going down to the 17 inch rims of the same width (kosei K1's) so I can run the rivals and save money on tires in the long run. It'll mess up my class for this season but the tire selection will be better, cheaper and I'll be in a good position to take advantage of the street class next year. The rims AND tires will be 1500 shipped from tirerack (and i can put them on myself) versus around 1080 to buy the direzzas and have them put on somewhere else. Plus I'll have an extra set of rims to either put snow tires on or just sell them. The only things I'll need now is some camber bolts.

In order to see the rule changes I and Z Madness referenced here's the solo fastrack for april where they are layed out. 13.8 F lays out the camber rules and 13.4 lays out the wheel provision.

Z Madness

Haha, yes, that is the natural progression, that's why I said as long as you can withstand the urge. I was STU last year, moved to SM this year. SM can get real expensive (of course, STU wasn't cheap either). But I would say if you are serious about wanting to compete for PAX, do not go to STU or SM.

Stock class guys run some serious width on stock size rims. Guys running Hoosier 285's and 8.5" width is not uncommon. Not ideal but it works for the stock class.

Kosei's are pretty light IIRC and only in 17's max? I would strongly consider going wider rims vs. smaller diameter, so you can max the tire width. But yeah, tires can really add up each year. Several of us in STU ran dedicated AuoX tires so even then it's not cheap. Good luck man.

johnnyfive

The reason I might be going with 17's is the tire selection and cost. I'm going to stay with the same width so I can run street class ( which is replacing stock) next year. It'll mess me up this year but next year I will already have tested and prepped for the new class. I still have time before I have to make a decision. But I think going to 17's will be the way to go.

nollij

iTrader: (21)

Section 18.1 covers Modified class rules. Street Modified (SM) is covered in section 16, specifically section 16.D.1. which states:

"Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Sqaps involving makes related only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular model (e.g., Eagle Talon, available originally with either a Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured as production units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany."

A 4G64 will put an Evo out of SM just as a subbie with a swap to an engine not offered in that model's original lineup will put them out of SM.

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

Beat me too it . It use to be you could use the same manufacturers swaps but that went out the window years ago. If it didn't I would build a GXP with an LSx.

johnnyfive

Whoops, ctrl-fing the rules sometimes doesn't help. I'll ask him the next time I see him about it. Maybe it's just a built engine and not a swap.

RJones

iTrader: (5)

Holy shxt! I never realized that changed. I almost just built a long rod 2.1 with a 4G64 block...good thing I didn't. What about Strelneicks with a 3 rotor rx7 in SSM? Did he swap it out for a 2 rotor, or does the rotary magic not apply?

Edit: I think you guys are misinterpreting. 16.1.D.1 says "Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model."
That tells me that any engine as long as it is from the same make as your original engine is legal.

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

I think the key part is "Standard or Optional engine for that model". Its probably what lets the SR20DET swaps happen. What I cant decide is that if a Lancer has a 2.4 N/A, does that allow the Evo to run it, or a Lancer to run a 2.0?

Unless the 3 rotor was installed somewhere in the world factory in an RX7, Im not sure it is legal.

RJones

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, that is the key part. It has to be badged the same as the "Standard or Optional engine for that model". That reads "The make has to be the same as the standard or optional engine for that model". That's why it gives the clarification of badges used strictly for marketing purposes, IE Mitsubishi vs. Eagle. The engine is a Mitsubishi engine, so theoretically, you could swap any Mitsubishi engine into an Eagle Talon. Here's an excerpt from that same section that proves my point "(e.g., Eagle Talon, available originally with either a Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler or Mitsubishi"

Nope, a 3 rotor was never an option in the RX7 afaik.

nollij

iTrader: (21)

I think that spells it right there. In terms of the DSM, I believe what it is saying is that you can have the 4G63 through any of those manufacturers regardless if they badged the engine differently.

IE: you can put a gen 2 eclipse 4G63 into an eagle talon or chrysler laser regardless of the manufacturers badging.

If you think I am wrong, I would suggest getting a clarification via SCCA before doing an engine build.

nollij

iTrader: (21)

That is a good question... I guess it depends how the SCCA interprets the connection between the Lancer and Evolution. We know that the Evolution is not even based off the Lancer unlike the STI and WRX comparison. Going off of that, I personally would not do it if I was AutoX at a competitive level. Could be a costly bummer.

Wikipedia states that the only car that a 20b (3 rotary engine) was put into was a Mazda Cosmo.