2016 SM (Street Mod) Autocross Discussion
Nov 15, 2016, 11:31 AM
#316
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Eff it, just cut the front of the car off at the firewall and tube it out. Because racecar.
Nov 15, 2016, 11:40 AM
#317
Lol, that's certainly an option. My I guess business statement would be to make things an average racer could both obtain and use successfully. So some adjustability but most the thought already done and can be as easy as following a recipe.
Strut is always going to be a limitation and there are people out there not limited by rules but limited by capability or cost. Since I don't need to make a living off it, just enough to keep things going, I think I can do things closer to the hobbyist level.
Strut is always going to be a limitation and there are people out there not limited by rules but limited by capability or cost. Since I don't need to make a living off it, just enough to keep things going, I think I can do things closer to the hobbyist level.
Nov 21, 2016, 08:34 AM
#318
I think Nemo did just that with recessing the upper control arm into the frame. Maybe take a peak at how they did it.
Also, not sure if the length would work, but there are some aftermarket upper control arms for things like the Mustang II that are dirt cheap, adjustable, and readily available. They use a mounting bracket as part of the arm too where all you need to mount them is two bolts.
Also, not sure if the length would work, but there are some aftermarket upper control arms for things like the Mustang II that are dirt cheap, adjustable, and readily available. They use a mounting bracket as part of the arm too where all you need to mount them is two bolts.
Nov 25, 2016, 01:15 PM
#319
I think Nemo did just that with recessing the upper control arm into the frame. Maybe take a peak at how they did it.
Also, not sure if the length would work, but there are some aftermarket upper control arms for things like the Mustang II that are dirt cheap, adjustable, and readily available. They use a mounting bracket as part of the arm too where all you need to mount them is two bolts.
Also, not sure if the length would work, but there are some aftermarket upper control arms for things like the Mustang II that are dirt cheap, adjustable, and readily available. They use a mounting bracket as part of the arm too where all you need to mount them is two bolts.
. I think the upper arm can be done pretty reasonably tubular with the existing or my upcoming lower control arm. But it'll be a fair amount of work till I get to the point of working on that part. On a side note, Down to 6 (possibly 5) of the billet uprights at the intro price. They'll have to go up to the normal price on the second set so I can keep growing new parts and cover all the other business crap...
Nov 26, 2016, 12:42 PM
#320
So looks like fitting the brake ducts will be slightly trickier than I thought. Here's a picture of my first pass using a 2" duct and it hits the axle boot at full turn to the inside. I think I can angle a bit more and perhaps notch or dent that part right at the brake caliper.
The brake duct I have (always been sitting in a box) is only 2" but has less angle than my printed part. Thinking now 3" is definitely out of the question and it'll be a tight fit to make the 2.5" work.
One thing I think it definitely needs is some sort of extra support. A 3rd point of contact to prevent things from bending but the only other mounting feature nearby is the brake line itself but that would just make install a pain. Looking at the old ducts which were used from a friend, they are bent a bit at the mount so guessing the ducting is pulling on them and last thing you want is to bend it over and run it into the axle boot.
The brake duct I have (always been sitting in a box) is only 2" but has less angle than my printed part. Thinking now 3" is definitely out of the question and it'll be a tight fit to make the 2.5" work.
One thing I think it definitely needs is some sort of extra support. A 3rd point of contact to prevent things from bending but the only other mounting feature nearby is the brake line itself but that would just make install a pain. Looking at the old ducts which were used from a friend, they are bent a bit at the mount so guessing the ducting is pulling on them and last thing you want is to bend it over and run it into the axle boot.
Nov 26, 2016, 02:00 PM
#321
May need to move it upwards as part of the 2nd gen. I usually look to the vettes for trial and errors that have already been tried:
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...cooling-2.html
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...cooling-2.html
Nov 27, 2016, 09:19 AM
#322
Im not sure what you mean by move upward unless you mean coming in through the top? There's only room between the mounting tabs for ducting without moving to top or back, both of which have their own issues.
I used the first model to figure where I can add a little extra meat to the base and angled the tube another 5deg. I checked actual steering angle possible and in my case 20deg is all I can get, limited by the inside tire (back of tire moving in, which also steers more than outside due to ackerman). The picture here is with steering removed and maxed out to tire rubbing on trans at about 25deg.
Looking at the clearance with the tire turned all the way it seems you would have to route any ducting down and along the control arm, is that how people are doing it with the current available kits? I think using a section of bent tube would be perfect to get the bend in a hard tube instead of bending the flex line.
For the additional support, there is also a perfect spot on the on the back face of the uprights to drill and tap for a 5mm screw. I'm also going to run some FEA simulations with removing material in that section of the upright. Its not in a high stress area and also supported by the bolted on bearing housing that's steel. If thats all ok, I'll make the change to my model for V2 and offer free of charge to cut out any existing uprights in the area on my CNC.
I will also explore ducting to the top but its certainly more complicated to route.
I used the first model to figure where I can add a little extra meat to the base and angled the tube another 5deg. I checked actual steering angle possible and in my case 20deg is all I can get, limited by the inside tire (back of tire moving in, which also steers more than outside due to ackerman). The picture here is with steering removed and maxed out to tire rubbing on trans at about 25deg.
Looking at the clearance with the tire turned all the way it seems you would have to route any ducting down and along the control arm, is that how people are doing it with the current available kits? I think using a section of bent tube would be perfect to get the bend in a hard tube instead of bending the flex line.
For the additional support, there is also a perfect spot on the on the back face of the uprights to drill and tap for a 5mm screw. I'm also going to run some FEA simulations with removing material in that section of the upright. Its not in a high stress area and also supported by the bolted on bearing housing that's steel. If thats all ok, I'll make the change to my model for V2 and offer free of charge to cut out any existing uprights in the area on my CNC.
I will also explore ducting to the top but its certainly more complicated to route.
Nov 28, 2016, 08:12 AM
#323
Im not sure what you mean by move upward unless you mean coming in through the top? There's only room between the mounting tabs for ducting without moving to top or back, both of which have their own issues.
I used the first model to figure where I can add a little extra meat to the base and angled the tube another 5deg. I checked actual steering angle possible and in my case 20deg is all I can get, limited by the inside tire (back of tire moving in, which also steers more than outside due to ackerman). The picture here is with steering removed and maxed out to tire rubbing on trans at about 25deg.
Looking at the clearance with the tire turned all the way it seems you would have to route any ducting down and along the control arm, is that how people are doing it with the current available kits? I think using a section of bent tube would be perfect to get the bend in a hard tube instead of bending the flex line.
For the additional support, there is also a perfect spot on the on the back face of the uprights to drill and tap for a 5mm screw. I'm also going to run some FEA simulations with removing material in that section of the upright. Its not in a high stress area and also supported by the bolted on bearing housing that's steel. If thats all ok, I'll make the change to my model for V2 and offer free of charge to cut out any existing uprights in the area on my CNC.
I will also explore ducting to the top but its certainly more complicated to route.
I used the first model to figure where I can add a little extra meat to the base and angled the tube another 5deg. I checked actual steering angle possible and in my case 20deg is all I can get, limited by the inside tire (back of tire moving in, which also steers more than outside due to ackerman). The picture here is with steering removed and maxed out to tire rubbing on trans at about 25deg.
Looking at the clearance with the tire turned all the way it seems you would have to route any ducting down and along the control arm, is that how people are doing it with the current available kits? I think using a section of bent tube would be perfect to get the bend in a hard tube instead of bending the flex line.
For the additional support, there is also a perfect spot on the on the back face of the uprights to drill and tap for a 5mm screw. I'm also going to run some FEA simulations with removing material in that section of the upright. Its not in a high stress area and also supported by the bolted on bearing housing that's steel. If thats all ok, I'll make the change to my model for V2 and offer free of charge to cut out any existing uprights in the area on my CNC.
I will also explore ducting to the top but its certainly more complicated to route.
.
Nov 28, 2016, 08:50 AM
#324
That location is used as it funnels air towards the inside of the caliper hat where the rotor acts as a centrifugal pump pushing air outwards between the rotor discs. The other locations would just blast the back surface of the rotor with air.
Last edited by nollij; Nov 28, 2016 at 08:58 AM.
Nov 28, 2016, 09:10 AM
#325
I think one thing that is unknown is how much air is being pumped by the rotor. Seems like the ducting is just getting fresh clean air to the rotor center but without blocking everything off it shouldn't be able to force air through the rotor. I don't have a ton of experience with brake cooling though since its not an issue in AutoX.
I did read that guys on track have found factory heat shields to be worse than no shields as far as cooling goes but that's not including any proper ducting. I guess it would be good to make something for Nollij to try and see how it works for him and if more is needed.
Another thing to possibly look at would be the air dams that attach to the lower control arms to trip air and draw it up into the wheel to help reduce the recycling of hot air within the wheel hoop. I've seen these often on corvettes and Porsches but not sure if the Evo guys are doing it.
I did read that guys on track have found factory heat shields to be worse than no shields as far as cooling goes but that's not including any proper ducting. I guess it would be good to make something for Nollij to try and see how it works for him and if more is needed.
Another thing to possibly look at would be the air dams that attach to the lower control arms to trip air and draw it up into the wheel to help reduce the recycling of hot air within the wheel hoop. I've seen these often on corvettes and Porsches but not sure if the Evo guys are doing it.
Nov 28, 2016, 09:48 AM
#326
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
I think one thing that is unknown is how much air is being pumped by the rotor. Seems like the ducting is just getting fresh clean air to the rotor center but without blocking everything off it shouldn't be able to force air through the rotor. I don't have a ton of experience with brake cooling though since its not an issue in AutoX.
I did read that guys on track have found factory heat shields to be worse than no shields as far as cooling goes but that's not including any proper ducting. I guess it would be good to make something for Nollij to try and see how it works for him and if more is needed.
Another thing to possibly look at would be the air dams that attach to the lower control arms to trip air and draw it up into the wheel to help reduce the recycling of hot air within the wheel hoop. I've seen these often on corvettes and Porsches but not sure if the Evo guys are doing it.
I did read that guys on track have found factory heat shields to be worse than no shields as far as cooling goes but that's not including any proper ducting. I guess it would be good to make something for Nollij to try and see how it works for him and if more is needed.
Another thing to possibly look at would be the air dams that attach to the lower control arms to trip air and draw it up into the wheel to help reduce the recycling of hot air within the wheel hoop. I've seen these often on corvettes and Porsches but not sure if the Evo guys are doing it.
Next track day I got Racing Brake directional vane single piece rotors, removed the factory heat shields, and installed the OEM air brake guides. Same ST43 pads, and same brake fluid (I did bleed the brakes though). Brakes were much better. Pedal stayed a lot more firm, and that pads seemed to be in more of a happy place as they maintained their initial bite throughout an entire session. This was running the 3.4 Mansel layout at SMMR with the bus stop. Much harder on brakes than SOW.
Dec 1, 2016, 08:12 AM
#327
Half of the Uprights gone, 5 sets left 
.
I'm assuming next few will sell a bit slower since early winter and people are thinking about Xmas not cars. I'm just hoping to not get a bunch of interest in like Feb - March then not be able to make enough for beginning race season. So if you are interested in 1st or 2nd batch, let me know so I can try and plan ahead. And remember, there's the $250 discount for early adopters. 2nd batch goes to normal intended price.
. I'm assuming next few will sell a bit slower since early winter and people are thinking about Xmas not cars. I'm just hoping to not get a bunch of interest in like Feb - March then not be able to make enough for beginning race season. So if you are interested in 1st or 2nd batch, let me know so I can try and plan ahead. And remember, there's the $250 discount for early adopters. 2nd batch goes to normal intended price.
Dec 1, 2016, 08:44 AM
#328
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Need to up my side work game and snag a first batch set...LOL
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