Lets See Those Custom Parts v.2023
Apr 2, 2017, 09:48 PM
#106
But heres all that changed, First the control arm effects then other misc
- Removed the nasty sticktion cause by running a urethane bushing with offset trailing bushings.
- Moved the wheel forward so perfectly clears both front and rear of fender well. Never had so little rubbing, was great!
- Added 2-3 deg of caster
- Removed about 1 deg of camber
- Got rid of the BS prolift for proper anti-dive (can talk more about that...)
- Decrease rear toe, was -.25" per tire and now 0.
- Big wing
Will get more testing in crows, hopefully I'll figure out the splitter before that but Im not sure if it'll happen in time.
The following users liked this post:
SWOLN (Apr 3, 2017)
Apr 2, 2017, 11:08 PM
#107
Thank you Dallas.
So you felt that you can maintain or even have more front end grip with 1 deg less camber, thanks to RC correction and 2-3 degrees more caster?
May I guess, you went from -4 to -3 degrees of camber?
Did you feel at all like the front had too much roll stiffness, or was it balanced and spring rates are still square to staggered as its typical Evo: 12/12 or 12/14 or something to that effect?
So you felt that you can maintain or even have more front end grip with 1 deg less camber, thanks to RC correction and 2-3 degrees more caster?
May I guess, you went from -4 to -3 degrees of camber?
Did you feel at all like the front had too much roll stiffness, or was it balanced and spring rates are still square to staggered as its typical Evo: 12/12 or 12/14 or something to that effect?
Apr 2, 2017, 11:27 PM
#108
Evolved Member
Thanks for the info Dallas, that looks great. I keep forgetting that you run the car really low, hence the need for so much correction.
Apr 3, 2017, 08:19 AM
#110
Thank you Dallas.
So you felt that you can maintain or even have more front end grip with 1 deg less camber, thanks to RC correction and 2-3 degrees more caster?
May I guess, you went from -4 to -3 degrees of camber?
Did you feel at all like the front had too much roll stiffness, or was it balanced and spring rates are still square to staggered as its typical Evo: 12/12 or 12/14 or something to that effect?
So you felt that you can maintain or even have more front end grip with 1 deg less camber, thanks to RC correction and 2-3 degrees more caster?
May I guess, you went from -4 to -3 degrees of camber?
Did you feel at all like the front had too much roll stiffness, or was it balanced and spring rates are still square to staggered as its typical Evo: 12/12 or 12/14 or something to that effect?
I'm hoping to get the Izze IR sensors installed to get a better look at what the tires are doing before heading to crows. Hoping that will really help figure out the camber/caster/tire pressure needs.
I don't think the front was too stiff at all, it actually just felt really good overall. I did chicken out on rear bar after all the changes and went one step softer but I will put that back to full stiff. I'm 700/800 now and pretty happy with that. Stock front bar on full soft, 26mm rear bar on full stiff.
The following 2 users liked this post by Dallas J:
alpinaturbo (Apr 3, 2017),
kikiturbo (Apr 3, 2017)
Apr 3, 2017, 08:40 AM
#111
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I need to go back and do some suspension studying. I looked at a picture I took over a year ago of when I had my car weighed and noticed my cross weight is like 54ish percent...but unfortunately I don't have coilivers with independent height adjustment. I'm very happy with the balance of the car at the moment, but braking seems to be my issue now. The acd seemed to really make a nice change even in stock rear diff...but I think there's still something that's "off" with the setup
Apr 3, 2017, 08:57 AM
#112
Nice, would love to see those pics. While I'm sad at tires, it didn't make sense to run hoosiers there just to try and brake the car. But car felt ridiculous, just feels like the whole package is coming together and its really easy to drive.
I was at -4.3deg with stock uprights, stock arms with PSRS, and 15mm offset top hats. I think I had enough caster that -4.3 was maybe too much but I was still killing outside and inside of tires. Then with the uprights I dropped to -3.8deg but killed inside/outside still. Now with the 30mm offset top hats and big caster from my arms I'm at -3deg and I still kept lowering the pressure in the RA1s from 38 down to 30 to try and get roll over but I think that was bad and caused some of the greasiness to get worse.
I'm hoping to get the Izze IR sensors installed to get a better look at what the tires are doing before heading to crows. Hoping that will really help figure out the camber/caster/tire pressure needs.
I don't think the front was too stiff at all, it actually just felt really good overall. I did chicken out on rear bar after all the changes and went one step softer but I will put that back to full stiff. I'm 700/800 now and pretty happy with that. Stock front bar on full soft, 26mm rear bar on full stiff.
I was at -4.3deg with stock uprights, stock arms with PSRS, and 15mm offset top hats. I think I had enough caster that -4.3 was maybe too much but I was still killing outside and inside of tires. Then with the uprights I dropped to -3.8deg but killed inside/outside still. Now with the 30mm offset top hats and big caster from my arms I'm at -3deg and I still kept lowering the pressure in the RA1s from 38 down to 30 to try and get roll over but I think that was bad and caused some of the greasiness to get worse.
I'm hoping to get the Izze IR sensors installed to get a better look at what the tires are doing before heading to crows. Hoping that will really help figure out the camber/caster/tire pressure needs.
I don't think the front was too stiff at all, it actually just felt really good overall. I did chicken out on rear bar after all the changes and went one step softer but I will put that back to full stiff. I'm 700/800 now and pretty happy with that. Stock front bar on full soft, 26mm rear bar on full stiff.
Apr 3, 2017, 09:35 AM
#113
I started soft on the rear bar last year (my Hotchkiss bar) cause I had the same thought. But I think what I'm learning is that fixing the front roll center greatly fixes the outside front dive. Back to my wobbly table analogy, if front isn't dropping then rear isn't lifting. So now I can use an even greater distribution of rear bar to front bar before I get excessive rear lift (again, some rear lift is actually a good thing).
It also comes back to the rear bar takes load off the inside rear/outside front, and transfers to outside rear/inside front. Load transfer, not weight transfer or course. Net effect is less work on outside front and more work in inside front and overall increased front grip.
So while it at first seems the rear would be all kinds of loose and uncontrollable, I actually have to work to get it out of shape now. In fact yesterday I couldn't. Course was too small for much speed though so will get more testing down in crows. I don't expect that will change much though because its the same config I ran last year as far as rate/bar setup goes.
It also comes back to the rear bar takes load off the inside rear/outside front, and transfers to outside rear/inside front. Load transfer, not weight transfer or course. Net effect is less work on outside front and more work in inside front and overall increased front grip.
So while it at first seems the rear would be all kinds of loose and uncontrollable, I actually have to work to get it out of shape now. In fact yesterday I couldn't. Course was too small for much speed though so will get more testing down in crows. I don't expect that will change much though because its the same config I ran last year as far as rate/bar setup goes.
Apr 3, 2017, 11:42 AM
#115
Well done Dallas your R&D is really taking shape!! I noticed you mentioned your BJ sitting really close to the wheel as seen in the picture. IIRC both your RPF1's and PF01's are 18's correct?
If that's the case then that would suggest that with 17" wheels assuming identical barrel shape, which you can never assume, your 3/4" clearance would translate to 1/4" according to my mental math. is that a fair statement? And if that's the case then where is the line drawn where it would be considering inadvisable to run it on 17's?
If that's the case then that would suggest that with 17" wheels assuming identical barrel shape, which you can never assume, your 3/4" clearance would translate to 1/4" according to my mental math. is that a fair statement? And if that's the case then where is the line drawn where it would be considering inadvisable to run it on 17's?
Apr 3, 2017, 12:01 PM
#116
I started soft on the rear bar last year (my Hotchkiss bar) cause I had the same thought. But I think what I'm learning is that fixing the front roll center greatly fixes the outside front dive. Back to my wobbly table analogy, if front isn't dropping then rear isn't lifting. So now I can use an even greater distribution of rear bar to front bar before I get excessive rear lift (again, some rear lift is actually a good thing).
It also comes back to the rear bar takes load off the inside rear/outside front, and transfers to outside rear/inside front. Load transfer, not weight transfer or course. Net effect is less work on outside front and more work in inside front and overall increased front grip.
So while it at first seems the rear would be all kinds of loose and uncontrollable, I actually have to work to get it out of shape now. In fact yesterday I couldn't. Course was too small for much speed though so will get more testing down in crows. I don't expect that will change much though because its the same config I ran last year as far as rate/bar setup goes.
It also comes back to the rear bar takes load off the inside rear/outside front, and transfers to outside rear/inside front. Load transfer, not weight transfer or course. Net effect is less work on outside front and more work in inside front and overall increased front grip.
So while it at first seems the rear would be all kinds of loose and uncontrollable, I actually have to work to get it out of shape now. In fact yesterday I couldn't. Course was too small for much speed though so will get more testing down in crows. I don't expect that will change much though because its the same config I ran last year as far as rate/bar setup goes.
Apr 3, 2017, 01:02 PM
#120
Well done Dallas your R&D is really taking shape!! I noticed you mentioned your BJ sitting really close to the wheel as seen in the picture. IIRC both your RPF1's and PF01's are 18's correct?
If that's the case then that would suggest that with 17" wheels assuming identical barrel shape, which you can never assume, your 3/4" clearance would translate to 1/4" according to my mental math. is that a fair statement? And if that's the case then where is the line drawn where it would be considering inadvisable to run it on 17's?
If that's the case then that would suggest that with 17" wheels assuming identical barrel shape, which you can never assume, your 3/4" clearance would translate to 1/4" according to my mental math. is that a fair statement? And if that's the case then where is the line drawn where it would be considering inadvisable to run it on 17's?
. I have my liners cut on the front side all the way up to cutting out the metal brake part. But mine isn't a street car. Before I had these arms and 30mm offset top hats, I originally made the 15mm offset hat to bring the wheel back just like you're needing. Sean (letsgetthisdone) just got his car aligned with PSRS and my 15mm top hats and had somewhere around 6.5-7deg caster.
The 2D dxf for that is free to whoever wants it but it is specced around my 5bolt ohlin top hats. Apparently newer sets are 4bolt but Sean still made it work.