Journal Bearing to Ball Bearing to race manifold = quicker spool on larger set up? - EvolutionM - Mitsubishi Lancer and Lancer Evolution Community



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Journal Bearing to Ball Bearing to race manifold = quicker spool on larger set up?

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Old Dec 5, 2017, 07:05 PM   #1
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Journal Bearing to Ball Bearing to race manifold = quicker spool on larger set up?

This is not a post about "big turbo's or tubular manifolds cracking"

This post is about the newer BB turbos, with less psi, and less heat making the same higher whp as overstressed smaller turbos.

My question starts with my new FP Red journal bearing. Was a budget purchase that fit the bill. At 575whp at 32psi, it's awesome, limited only by fuel system. However, with upgraded fuel system and no limitations at 34psi, I am possibly overspooling the turbo. Is this possible? Never been in position to have this good problem.

Are there larger turbos that won't be overspooled, produce less heat, and still make the same power at less psi boost for ROAD RACE junkies? Or will the lag kill the whole vibe I got going here?

Are the new larger BB turbos with "tubular manifolds" offering quicker spool up? When does a ported OEM Manifold start to limit the volume equation? Still trying to avoid drag race applications and still wanting to drive the apex on throttle. Is there a happy place?

Looking at the GTX 3582R with race manifold in stock location. I am told a good tuner can tune a turbo to achieve earlier onset and take advantage of the turbo upfront.

For this thread to stay on track, lets agree road racing above 575whp is desired.

Be careful, my motor is all apart and I'm taking notes on what to do next. Thoughts welcomed.
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Old Dec 5, 2017, 08:47 PM   #2
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My thought would be that if you're happy with the transient response you have now that a ball bearing black or something of a similar size would be what you're looking for. IE would keep a similar transient response to what you have, slower wheel speeds for the same power and wouldn't run as hot.

As for a ported stock manifold, I'd think that there would be power gains from moving to a tubular because you'd get more even runner lengths but I don't think you'd spool the turbo any faster.

What I will say for certain is by all means, stay on a twinscroll flange.
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Old Dec 6, 2017, 10:13 AM   #3
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A. you're not overrunning the turbo at 34psi, but for track work, you're asking a lot of it and it will very likely have a shortened service life.


If you want to go to turbo kit, a GTX3576 with the smaller vband housing will give the best balance of spool, and power per psi. The new Precision Gen2 5558 also looks promising.
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Old Dec 6, 2017, 06:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
A. you're not overrunning the turbo at 34psi, but for track work, you're asking a lot of it and it will very likely have a shortened service life.


If you want to go to turbo kit, a GTX3576 with the smaller vband housing will give the best balance of spool, and power per psi. The new Precision Gen2 5558 also looks promising.
There are significant gains keeping twin scroll. Imho, a 3576 on a 1.01 twin scroll t3 would be a solid performer. In the build I'm currently supporting we are using the full race t3 ts manifold and gtx 3582 gen 2. This particular housing and wheel combination out does a lot of even smaller set ups. It seems to be the sweet spot. That is according to the results threads I've referenced and talks with personnel with hands on experience in testing the components in various settings. We are anticipating the 3582 to hit the full boost threshold at 4400-4500. (26ish psi) the intent was to get a solid amount of turbine to lower back pressure, twinscroll to help response, and the 82mm wheel feeding the 2.4 at conservative boost levels making the overall stress level low on everything. Crucial for longevity.
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Old Dec 6, 2017, 06:25 PM   #5
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https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-dyno-tuning-results/721667-professional-awesome-time-attack-evo-2-2l-gtx3582r-162mm-rods-4pistons-racing-head.html#PhotoSwipe1512609814105

For reference
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Old Dec 6, 2017, 08:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 211ratsbud View Post
There are significant gains keeping twin scroll. Imho, a 3576 on a 1.01 twin scroll t3 would be a solid performer. In the build I'm currently supporting we are using the full race t3 ts manifold and gtx 3582 gen 2. This particular housing and wheel combination out does a lot of even smaller set ups. It seems to be the sweet spot. That is according to the results threads I've referenced and talks with personnel with hands on experience in testing the components in various settings. We are anticipating the 3582 to hit the full boost threshold at 4400-4500. (26ish psi) the intent was to get a solid amount of turbine to lower back pressure, twinscroll to help response, and the 82mm wheel feeding the 2.4 at conservative boost levels making the overall stress level low on everything. Crucial for longevity.
Sounds like a nice build. You should make a thread here to document it if you can find the time.
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Old Dec 7, 2017, 04:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 211ratsbud View Post
There are significant gains keeping twin scroll. Imho, a 3576 on a 1.01 twin scroll t3 would be a solid performer. In the build I'm currently supporting we are using the full race t3 ts manifold and gtx 3582 gen 2. This particular housing and wheel combination out does a lot of even smaller set ups. It seems to be the sweet spot. That is according to the results threads I've referenced and talks with personnel with hands on experience in testing the components in various settings. We are anticipating the 3582 to hit the full boost threshold at 4400-4500. (26ish psi) the intent was to get a solid amount of turbine to lower back pressure, twinscroll to help response, and the 82mm wheel feeding the 2.4 at conservative boost levels making the overall stress level low on everything. Crucial for longevity.
This does sound promising and appreciate you sharing. I will read up at link.
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Old Dec 7, 2017, 05:03 PM   #8
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I don't see any divided housing on Garrett's website.
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Old Dec 7, 2017, 05:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
I don't see any divided housing on Garrett's website.
https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Cod e=ATP-HSG-210&Category_Code=NGH

this is the one right here.
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Old Dec 8, 2017, 08:58 AM   #10
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Is that made by Garrett?


Interestingly, the volutes appear closer to T4 volute size. They have to be notched so you can get a bolt on the flange.

Last edited by letsgetthisdone; Dec 8, 2017 at 09:22 AM.
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Old Dec 8, 2017, 04:32 PM   #11
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Is that made by Garrett?


Interestingly, the volutes appear closer to T4 volute size. They have to be notched so you can get a bolt on the flange.
made by Garrett. Just the right size for a responsive 3582 that makes power😂😂

Last edited by 211ratsbud; Dec 8, 2017 at 04:41 PM.
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Old Dec 8, 2017, 05:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 211ratsbud View Post
There are significant gains keeping twin scroll. Imho, a 3576 on a 1.01 twin scroll t3 would be a solid performer. In the build I'm currently supporting we are using the full race t3 ts manifold and gtx 3582 gen 2. This particular housing and wheel combination out does a lot of even smaller set ups. It seems to be the sweet spot. That is according to the results threads I've referenced and talks with personnel with hands on experience in testing the components in various settings. We are anticipating the 3582 to hit the full boost threshold at 4400-4500. (26ish psi) the intent was to get a solid amount of turbine to lower back pressure, twinscroll to help response, and the 82mm wheel feeding the 2.4 at conservative boost levels making the overall stress level low on everything. Crucial for longevity.
Those 3582 stats are pretty impressive. What kind of power is it making at 26psi?

I've been impressed with my BB 5858 .82 SS v-band. It has exceeded my expectations. I thought the v-band would make it laggy but the car is super responsive for a setup that makes 640whp.

It hits 28psi by 4300 rpm in 3rd and holds 28psi no problem to 8800rpm

I'm working on a 24.5psi track tune and it makes 540whp on E53
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