Dry Sump Thread: More offerings are available! - EvolutionM - Mitsubishi Lancer and Lancer Evolution Community

Go Back  EvolutionM - Mitsubishi Lancer and Lancer Evolution Community > Competition > Motor Sports
Reload this Page >

Dry Sump Thread: More offerings are available!

Notices
Motor Sports If you like rallying, road racing, autoxing, or track events, then this is the spot for you.

Dry Sump Thread: More offerings are available!

Reply

 
 
 
Old Dec 19, 2017, 07:37 AM
  #1  
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Driv200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 504
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Dry Sump Thread: More offerings are available!

Starting a new engine rebuild on the engine stand, I am researching Dry Sump oil systems and was happy to learn we have more options than I thought. Starting this thread to share what I learn and hope to start a "Go To" thread for Dry Sumps.

Cost seems to be the barrier to entry. For me, it has become number one priority. I will have to put dogbox and aero on hold. My focus then is Dry Sump Systems.

Brief conversations with Magnus, Norris, and Dailey Engineering thus far. Great information on each of the respective sites. All seem to start around $5000 before -AN lines and fittings that can add another $1000. Magnus offers an entry level kit for $3500, but leaves you to source a lot of parts to complete this kit. Their full kit also is around $5000. When you opt for a dry sump, I can't imagine not getting the full kit.

I am learning you can add more scavenge and vacuum pumps to suit your application as well as air/oil seperator upgrades. I am interested in more vacuum with my head for example.

Got a few pics of Dailey Engineering Dry Sump. Will post if I can.
Attached Thumbnails Dry Sump Thread:  More offerings are available!-dailey-dry-sump-top-down.jpg   Dry Sump Thread:  More offerings are available!-dailey-dry-sump-open.jpg   Dry Sump Thread:  More offerings are available!-dailey-dry-sump-pump.jpg   Dry Sump Thread:  More offerings are available!-dailey-dry-sump-mivec.jpg  
Driv200 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Driv200 For This Useful Post:
codgi (Dec 19, 2017), jedibow (Dec 19, 2017)
Old Dec 21, 2017, 08:53 PM
  #2  
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Driv200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 504
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
For guys with headlights and oil coolers, where is the best place to put the big tank for oil sumps?
Driv200 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2017, 05:13 AM
  #3  
Evolving Member
iTrader: (4)
 
clifhanger87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: boise, ID
Posts: 342
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Driv200 View Post
For guys with headlights and oil coolers, where is the best place to put the big tank for oil sumps?
ours is in the back where the back seat would be. bolted to the cage.
clifhanger87 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to clifhanger87 For This Useful Post:
Driv200 (Jan 2, 2018)
Old Dec 22, 2017, 08:53 AM
  #4  
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
 
letsgetthisdone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 10,589
Thanked 526 Times in 502 Posts
That's where it should go. I think putting it up front is a terrible place. Big old tank with 10-15qts of oil in adding weight past the front tire sounds like a terrible idea..
letsgetthisdone is online now  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to letsgetthisdone For This Useful Post:
Driv200 (Jan 2, 2018)
Old Dec 23, 2017, 06:47 AM
  #5  
Evolving Member
 
bee-raddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: auckland, new zealand
Posts: 253
Thanked 39 Times in 35 Posts
mine is also "P-Clipped" to the main hoop of the cage behind passenger seat. We ran flex lines to the floor then hard lines from the floor to the engine bay under the car but above the flat bottom.

That alone can save you around $800 in braided line. use 1" aluminium line and rent or buy a pipe bender.

I have the norris kit and while it came with almost everything you still have to run all the lines etc obviously, Source ur own oil cooler kit and a couple other small things i cant remember right now.

We had a few teething issues with my kit as i had one of the first of the new version kits and a couple bits n pieces were either mixed up as parts which were removed for this kit or missed out in the shipment so they had to send me 2 more packages. all free of charge.

And simon and the crew were very very helpful to deal with and very quick in getting back to me. So customer service and aftersales was a 10/10.

I only used one of their hard lines they made from scavenge to pump and i opted to use a braided line for the far one. The filter basket install into the bottom of the sump was a bit complicated and involved heating and cooling parts etc so hopefully they will come installed in the future.

I cant speak for the other brands but norris seemed best to me for price vs quality.

Happy to answer any questions you have etc on what u need or how/where to install stuff and what not.
bee-raddd is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to bee-raddd For This Useful Post:
Driv200 (Jan 2, 2018)
Old Dec 23, 2017, 04:37 PM
  #6  
kaj
Evolved Member
iTrader: (58)
 
kaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 8,613
Thanked 170 Times in 165 Posts
subbed
kaj is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kaj For This Useful Post:
Driv200 (Jan 2, 2018)
Old Jan 2, 2018, 05:52 PM
  #7  
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: southern california
Posts: 198
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
I thought i should give my 2 cents here as ive been through this.
I gained a bunch of knowledge while shopping for a dry sump system so let me explain,i realized early on that the major cause of most track going Evo's engine failures is oil starvation and since my car was a track only car the first thing i looked for was the dry sump.
As most guys know they are pricey so i shopped around a bit, there was a few systems out there namely Norris designs,ARE,MA performance had just released one, there was also another one in the UK which looked good also but i cant remember the name of that one and the kit from Magnus.
These are my personal opinions i should note and i only have experience with the ARE stuff but i can explain my reasoning behind going with that "kit"over another, also the reason im posting is i had a few members ask me about the ARE stuff as i posted somewhere that i had one.

I looked at the Magnus first, what put me off it was the amount of possible leak points in their pan, nice looking stuff but for a track guy where "reliability"is key it wasn't for me.

Next up i looked at the Norris kit, well designed, most every top build out there has one, its bolt on, whats not to like right?Well at the time the exchange rate was horrific and the same went for the other nameless kit from the UK so they were out for the time being.

The MA kit was just released at the time so i passed on it .
So i looked at the ARE kit closely, pan looked nice, pump was a 4 stage,3 scavenge and 1 pressure which has one more scavenge than the others mentioned ,many tank sizes to choose from and they have their own Spintric air/oil separator which looked really good although expensive, they didnt have an Evo specific pump bracket but a "universal"plate but i thought that wouldn't be too tough to deal with so i went with the ARE.
I initially regretted going that route, i got the stuff safely and quickly and looked it all over ,very nice quality especially the pump however after reflection i realized there was no solution for dealing with the OEM oil pump on the front cover, i believe from memory when you remove the OEM oil pickup the bearing for the pulley gets oiled at the same time as the oil gets sucked up from the pan so just removing the pickup was a worry for me with that pulley possibly not getting enough oil and a possible failure so this was a pretty big deal for me.
I thought it over for a while ,thought about putting a bearing in the front housing but theres not a lot of meat right there so decided against that.
So i thought maybe i can buy the nice front cover like they have on the Norris and Magnus kits, problem solved, sure ill pay more but whatever so i talked to Magnus first found out their front cover is not OEM profile, the bottom of their front cover is flat and only mates up to their pan so that was out as the profile on the ARE sump is the same as OEM, next up was Norris.
I emailed them and asked if their cover was OEM profile,answer was yes!
Asked if they'll sell just the front cover on its own, answer was yes!!
Got the price shipped to California,$1200!!!
At this point i said whatever and got it sent over, all went well after that ,everything matched up perfectly and that was that but a costly over sight.
Im posting this so other guys will factor that in in their decision when buying, if i was to do all over again id get the Norris kit and never look back, my ARE stuff ended up costing the same as the Norris kit at the high exchange rate and that included the Spintric which made me feel a bit better but it was somewhat of a pain.
Hope this helps others.
flyingscot is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to flyingscot For This Useful Post:
Driv200 (Jan 2, 2018), Kidloco51 (Jan 3, 2018)
Old Jan 2, 2018, 11:26 PM
  #8  
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Driv200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 504
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thank you. All the input helps. I have only read up on the Magnus thus far as they appear to be most commonly used. More advanced race teams seem to have other brands and/or magnus. For a 15 year old platform, I can't believe these dry sumps are more available and more common with complete turn key kits. I wish the price would have come down by now.

Looks like installing the tank will be in the back seat on passenger side. I wasn't sure of the safety in that placement incase something went wrong. In cabin safety? Trunk poses concerns for long lines. Like the hard pipe idea to save on some money. Will let you guys know.

Kudos to Dailey Engineering and Magnus for reaching out to me. Norris replied too. MAP doesn't offer one anymore. It was basically the Magnus components. It's a leap of faith at this point. Dailey has really gone the extra mile and sent me blue prints for my application and made me feel like they are excited about doing it. I just don't know if the funds will be available. Just pulled trigger on the new motor and hardware....but the new block build has begun and there is no better time. Just sent trans and TC to Shep for good measure for the same reason....no better time than now.

Keep you posted. Will probably have more questions. I think the oil/air separator is important? Correct?
Driv200 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Driv200 For This Useful Post:
flyingscot (Jan 4, 2018)
Old Jan 3, 2018, 05:21 AM
  #9  
Evolving Member
iTrader: (4)
 
clifhanger87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: boise, ID
Posts: 342
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Driv200 View Post
Looks like installing the tank will be in the back seat on passenger side. I wasn't sure of the safety in that placement incase something went wrong. In cabin safety? Trunk poses concerns for long lines. Like the hard pipe idea to save on some money. Will let you guys know.


Keep you posted. Will probably have more questions. I think the oil/air separator is important? Correct?
where you do end up using AN line, make sure you use the stainless braid variant. the nylon braid looks nicer, but isn't rated as long in an open fire situation. stainless will survive 30+ seconds before bursting whereas nylon will only last a few seconds. like 3.

and air/oil separator is important. also you'll want to ventilate it outside the car.
clifhanger87 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to clifhanger87 For This Useful Post:
Driv200 (Jan 3, 2018)
Old Jan 3, 2018, 06:12 AM
  #10  
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: southern california
Posts: 198
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by clifhanger87 View Post
where you do end up using AN line, make sure you use the stainless braid variant. the nylon braid looks nicer, but isn't rated as long in an open fire situation. stainless will survive 30+ seconds before bursting whereas nylon will only last a few seconds. like 3.

and air/oil separator is important. also you'll want to ventilate it outside the car.
Got more to do with the vacuum rating on the hose one would use, most nylon braid or cloth braid dont meet the required rating and recommend stainless and if you used what i used ,BMRS then the stainless braid is cheaper, not that it really matters at that point.
Another tip is if you want to spend the money use BMRS hose with Earls Ultrapro reusable ends, you have the benefits of the teflon convoluted hose but a decent looking black reusable end, the BMRS reusable's are kinda cheesy looking but their crimped ends are nice, the Earls hose ends with the BMRS hose is also easier to put together.
flyingscot is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to flyingscot For This Useful Post:
Driv200 (Jan 3, 2018)
Old Jan 3, 2018, 06:16 AM
  #11  
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: southern california
Posts: 198
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Driv200 View Post
Thank you. All the input helps. I have only read up on the Magnus thus far as they appear to be most commonly used. More advanced race teams seem to have other brands and/or magnus. For a 15 year old platform, I can't believe these dry sumps are more available and more common with complete turn key kits. I wish the price would have come down by now.

Looks like installing the tank will be in the back seat on passenger side. I wasn't sure of the safety in that placement incase something went wrong. In cabin safety? Trunk poses concerns for long lines. Like the hard pipe idea to save on some money. Will let you guys know.

Kudos to Dailey Engineering and Magnus for reaching out to me. Norris replied too. MAP doesn't offer one anymore. It was basically the Magnus components. It's a leap of faith at this point. Dailey has really gone the extra mile and sent me blue prints for my application and made me feel like they are excited about doing it. I just don't know if the funds will be available. Just pulled trigger on the new motor and hardware....but the new block build has begun and there is no better time. Just sent trans and TC to Shep for good measure for the same reason....no better time than now.

Keep you posted. Will probably have more questions. I think the oil/air separator is important? Correct?
Id definitely get an air/oil separator ,not only does it do the obvious but most of the heat is in the air, keeps the oil cooler and if youre going to use a conventional cooler put it on the scavenge side and make sure the cooler is a little larger space permitting, if you put a cooler on the pressure side it should be smaller and more robust as it will see much higher pressure obviously.
flyingscot is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to flyingscot For This Useful Post:
Driv200 (Jan 3, 2018)
Old Jan 3, 2018, 07:02 PM
  #12  
Evolved Member
iTrader: (32)
 
Kidloco51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 1,414
Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts
Im running a MA Performance Sump kit which appears to be a rebranded old AMS kit for the most part. If I could do it all over I would have gone Norris, Magnus etc (end the end only cost a few more bucks). The MA kit uses a reworked oem oil pump. Just recently discovered metal in my oil and I have a feeling something went south with the pump. Currently dropping motor to tear down and figure **** out. I going to make the switch to another front cover like Norris etc (way better design).

Where are you guys installing the air/oil separators at in line with everything?
Kidloco51 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kidloco51 For This Useful Post:
Driv200 (Jan 3, 2018), flyingscot (Jan 4, 2018)
Old Jan 3, 2018, 09:13 PM
  #13  
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Driv200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 504
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Taking all these notes as fast as I can. Thank you! Great tips for safety of lines in a fire. And good point on where to put the oil cooler. Appreciate all the tried and true experience from all of you.
Driv200 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3, 2018, 09:31 PM
  #14  
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Driv200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 504
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Trying to attach latest diagrams from Dailey Engineering.
Driv200 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 4, 2018, 06:46 AM
  #15  
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: southern california
Posts: 198
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Kidloco51 View Post
Im running a MA Performance Sump kit which appears to be a rebranded old AMS kit for the most part. If I could do it all over I would have gone Norris, Magnus etc (end the end only cost a few more bucks). The MA kit uses a reworked oem oil pump. Just recently discovered metal in my oil and I have a feeling something went south with the pump. Currently dropping motor to tear down and figure **** out. I going to make the switch to another front cover like Norris etc (way better design).

Where are you guys installing the air/oil separators at in line with everything?
Thanks for posting, id like to find out what they done to the old pump just for grins, did they perhaps drill out the back of the pump area to allow oil to get to that pulley?This is why i decided to just spend the money on the Norris front covers just had a bad feeling about the OEM pump/pulley in a dry sump situation
flyingscot is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Dry Sump Thread: More offerings are available!


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.