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2019 NASA ST/TT discussion

 
Old Nov 6, 2018, 09:53 AM
  #31  
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What did you read about the 275/35x17? That its not able to sustain front end weight of the Evo, and will cord the outside edges?

Sorry, just want to be clear, to pick best tire. Longevity means a lot, ability to uniformly wear out tires.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 10:11 AM
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Im confused by that comment as well...My speculation is that its not so much the tire size but rather the combination of the tire size with the wheel its mated to. I think that's what he's getting at in that you might be able to fit a 275 based on the rules however in doing so you will be forced for the tire to be pinched which will result in it having issues rolling over and cording the edge.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 02:05 PM
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Never ran the 17's so "I" couldn't tell ya there. I've run the 255 18 on a 9.5 and a 10, doesn't make a difference in the sidewall and still cords the sh*t out of it. If you do your research you'll see that the 255 was originally developed for some series, I forget which, where they stamped 255 on the sidewall when it was clearly wider then that. About 5 years later of using it Nasa finally got enough complaints and made the 255 tire count the same as a 275 tire so it became moot to use it. However, before all that became official we found out pretty quickly that it isn't designed for Evo's/Porsche's etc where the "load" is biased front or back and the tire wears far too fast because it rolls over. Yes we tired uber camber, pyro temps, I do all that normally. It's ..literally...a half baked tire that only does sorta well on things like BMW's and such that are so dang gentle on tires.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
If you are doing TT4 the 245/40/18 on a 18x9.5 or the 245/40/17 on a 17x9 are probably the right answer.
How do those 245s hold up to TT4-level use?
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Old Nov 7, 2018, 06:22 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Construct View Post
How do those 245s hold up to TT4-level use?
I corded the outside of my 245/40/18s in 15 TT heat cycles which normally consist of no more than 3 laps. Normally an R7 should heat cycle out before cording and still be somewhat fast into the 25 to 30 heat cycle range. If I was doing racing I don't think those tires would survive two weekends. I put 4 heat cycles on my 2nd set of 245/40/18s, and I am experimenting with higher air pressures to see if it helps the issue and see if I get more heat cycles before they cord. At the TT4 power to weight ratio I just think getting that .3 ratio is worth running on 245s even though we are over 3,100 lbs and can run the 282mm instead. My suggestion for TT4 would be get the car as light as possible so replace all glass remove everything inside, and detune for flat horsepower based on your competition weight.
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Old Nov 7, 2018, 07:07 AM
  #36  
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So never really thought to ask this before but what even is the difference between ST and TT? The rules are mirror images of each other.
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Old Nov 7, 2018, 02:58 PM
  #37  
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ST = Super Touring aka wheel to wheel racing. Race day usually consists of a practice, qualifying, and then 1 or 2 races with the last being the "points race". Full cages, fire systems, fire suit, disconnect switches, all that.

TT = Time Trials. Each day has several sessions and it's the 1 best lap of that entire day that counts towards points. Your usual time attack stuff. Basic safety...a helmet lol.

You can also do whats called "supersize" and run both ST and TT both days which is cool because if you win both you get both contingency prizes, but that's a lot of wear on car and driver. This is why the car classification rules are identical, but that's where it stops. You'll need to read the CCR rules to get the rest. Most all ST'ers are required to have done TT first unless they come over from another license/series.
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Old Nov 7, 2018, 03:11 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
I corded the outside of my 245/40/18s in 15 TT heat cycles which normally consist of no more than 3 laps. Normally an R7 should heat cycle out before cording and still be somewhat fast into the 25 to 30 heat cycle range. If I was doing racing I don't think those tires would survive two weekends. I put 4 heat cycles on my 2nd set of 245/40/18s, and I am experimenting with higher air pressures to see if it helps the issue and see if I get more heat cycles before they cord. At the TT4 power to weight ratio I just think getting that .3 ratio is worth running on 245s even though we are over 3,100 lbs and can run the 282mm instead. My suggestion for TT4 would be get the car as light as possible so replace all glass remove everything inside, and detune for flat horsepower based on your competition weight.
.6 lol. At our weight that's about +30hp or about -200lbs. You can play with the 2018 rule numbers on the online form here: https://form.jotform.com/drivenasa/s...ification-form Don't bother with the driver/team part, just skip to the car weight and start plugging in numbers.


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Old Nov 7, 2018, 09:23 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Balrok View Post
ST = Super Touring aka wheel to wheel racing. Race day usually consists of a practice, qualifying, and then 1 or 2 races with the last being the "points race". Full cages, fire systems, fire suit, disconnect switches, all that.

TT = Time Trials. Each day has several sessions and it's the 1 best lap of that entire day that counts towards points. Your usual time attack stuff. Basic safety...a helmet lol.

You can also do whats called "supersize" and run both ST and TT both days which is cool because if you win both you get both contingency prizes, but that's a lot of wear on car and driver. This is why the car classification rules are identical, but that's where it stops. You'll need to read the CCR rules to get the rest. Most all ST'ers are required to have done TT first unless they come over from another license/series.
Ahh, thank you. Kinda skipped over the CCR 😅
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Old Nov 8, 2018, 06:22 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Balrok View Post
.6 lol. At our weight that's about +30hp or about -200lbs. You can play with the 2018 rule numbers on the online form here: https://form.jotform.com/drivenasa/s...ification-form Don't bother with the driver/team part, just skip to the car weight and start plugging in numbers.
-.3 over the 282mm which is -.3 was my point. The fact we start +.3 this year and next year will start +.5 due to AWD next year (deletion of 4 door modifier) and basically everyone we compete against takes that -.6 for the 266mm means that if you run 282mm you are +.8 to everyone you are competing against right off the bat and are probably the heaviest car competing in TT4 which there are weight modifiers, but they don't do enough to fix the gap between a 2700lb car and a 3300lb car. I think Greg wants Evos to compete in TT3 and TT2 where the AWD modifier is reduced and you are competing against generally heavier cars. Since I am building mine for Gridlife Street Mod next season and upping the power I might also get a 93 octane TT3 tune made as the new aero package will no longer be TT4 legal. I still have a **** ton of contingency R7s piled up to be used. Which reminds me that if you supersize and run ST/TT you can only claim contingency for one or the other per day at least with Hoosier. I know back in the day the C5 Mafia was walking away with tons of tires winning both ST/TT and Hoosier put a stop to that.
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Old Nov 8, 2018, 07:21 AM
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Ah, Ya I remember that now. I think Scott still has 315's from like 4 or 5 years ago lol. This was my biggest gripe when I started out because everyone was playing hop scotch with classes to follow the car count PURELY for the hoosier contingency. And when I started winning tires I got hooked too so I started changing setup EVERY year to follow whomever offered the best one. However, now that I know a heck of a lot more about setup then I did then I just can't see why you'd want to bother with 1k+ in changes/setup to get 300 in tire. Or I'm just getting old lol, whatever I decide this year is my 3 year tire, because it'll literally take that long.
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Old Nov 8, 2018, 01:25 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Balrok View Post
Ah, Ya I remember that now. I think Scott still has 315's from like 4 or 5 years ago lol. This was my biggest gripe when I started out because everyone was playing hop scotch with classes to follow the car count PURELY for the hoosier contingency. And when I started winning tires I got hooked too so I started changing setup EVERY year to follow whomever offered the best one. However, now that I know a heck of a lot more about setup then I did then I just can't see why you'd want to bother with 1k+ in changes/setup to get 300 in tire. Or I'm just getting old lol, whatever I decide this year is my 3 year tire, because it'll literally take that long.
I knew TT4 was gonna be the place to be in my region instead of TT3 which I dominated last year, so I bought a TT4 car in Thai's Evo. Any chance you are going to the Sebring event next month? I am thinking about going to that one to finish my season since I haven't been to Sebring in a couple years.
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Old Nov 8, 2018, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
I knew TT4 was gonna be the place to be in my region instead of TT3 which I dominated last year, so I bought a TT4 car in Thai's Evo. Any chance you are going to the Sebring event next month? I am thinking about going to that one to finish my season since I haven't been to Sebring in a couple years.
Interesting, they (FL region) haven't had a Dec event in.....forever lol. Nah I won't be ready then because I'm on a work contract until January so the plan is Feb/March with the tune set to the final rules and contingency. We normally do the Toy Run up here that time of year because the turnout is always high and it traditionally rains so it's fun to pass 10 or so ST1 cars But I'll have to keep my eye out on their 19 sched, Sebring is my OG track
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Old Nov 9, 2018, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Balrok View Post
Interesting, they (FL region) haven't had a Dec event in.....forever lol. Nah I won't be ready then because I'm on a work contract until January so the plan is Feb/March with the tune set to the final rules and contingency. We normally do the Toy Run up here that time of year because the turnout is always high and it traditionally rains so it's fun to pass 10 or so ST1 cars But I'll have to keep my eye out on their 19 sched, Sebring is my OG track
Yeah the NOLA event is the same weekend as the Toy Run. The Sebring event is 2 weeks later on the 15th and 16th. Might be the latest NASA has ever held an event. Although Mid South wants to do a New Years Eve Enduro.
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Old Nov 26, 2018, 06:56 AM
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So this update is a little late. I ran with the NASA NOLA Region at NOLA Motorsports Park in October. It was a crossover event with the NASA Texas Region running the best 2.75 mile configuration. It was my first time taking a double loss as I got 2nd out of 7 both days with Jason Jones and his Harrop Supercharged Scion FRS got the win both days. It was nice to still take home 2 fresh Hoosiers for 2nd place. I love the NASA Hoosier contingency. We both gave it our best that weekend bringing sticker Hoosier R7s. At the end of the day he got me by 3 tenths on Saturday, and he decimated the track record on Sunday putting down a blazing fast 1:50.7. I did set a new personal best and ran a 1:52.0 which is only 1.3 seconds off the new track record. The biggest takeaway is that the AWD modifiers and the fact that I weighed in at 3360 lbs while Jason was running at 2760 lbs or 600 lbs lighter puts us at a large disadvantage in TT4. I know a few of us would like to try and get Greg to modify the TT4 AWD modifier. I really feel like the Evo's best place is up in TT3 where the AWD modifier is more reasonable despite the fact you are making more power and better able to use the AWD to apply that power. The downsides is that Aero is wide open in TT3 and you better have a damn good aero package to compete. That is why I really like TT4 as it still lets you run a damn fast car with a relatively simple formula of a good low drag 2D wing and a simple 4" front splitter. I have one more NASA NOLA Region event again on the 2.75 mile config of the NOLA Motorsports Park. I am hoping the weather will be great this weekend to try and improve on my best laptime and get closer to Jason Jones. I already have the NASA NOLA Region TT4 Championship and NOLA Super Lap (best NASA TT driver) locked up. This will probably be my final NASA TT4 weekend with the Evo. My NASA plans for next season are to purchase another ST4/3 TT3/4 car to get back to racing as it would be too much money and time to convert the Evo to a competitive ST car and it is already a really fast time attack car. Here is the video of my best lap in my sticker session on Saturday of the last event. As you will see this is really NOT NOT NOT how you want a sticker tire session to go. I lost my first lap thanks to the new Corvette C7 ZR1 in turn 1, and I backed it down to setup for lap 2. Well that let Terry Fair in his TT3 Mustang close the gap, and unfortunately he was on A7s and decided that going side by side into the brake zone for Turn 1 was a great idea hence ruining both of our 2nd laps as he gave me an I'm sorry wave. We spoke afterwards and he told me he didn't think he would get a 3rd lap on that heavy car on the A7s so he pushed the pass. I then backed off again and let the two Scion FRS by (both are supercharged). I thought I had left enough gap only to find out on the 3rd lap that I did not leave enough gap, and I had to pass him on the front straight. Then I was finally able to run the lap I wanted to after most of the fast was already gone from the tires. I like to think that under ideal conditions I could have dropped another half a second and put in a 1:51.5, but oh well:

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