I noticed there was a thread started like this for the SM class, but what kind of setups would you guys go with in ESP? Im thinking of doing...

JIC FLTA2 coilovers
Cusco Sway Bars
Goodridge brakelines
17"x9" 5Zigen FNO1R-C wheels
255/40-17 Kumho Victoracer tires
Sparco EVO III Seats, harness bar, and harnesses
UR intercooler pipes
HKS RS Intake
Full Helix exhaust setup (o2 housing, downpipe, cat-delete, cat-back)
UR lightweight pulleys
255lph Walbro fuel pump
Apex'i S-AFC II
Defi 60mm bf gauges (boost, egt, oil pressure)


MR bov and RS rear chassis bar (not sure about legality of these items yet)



Any comments/critisisms on this setup are more than welcome. I'd also like to hear what you guys would consider your ideal setup.

 

Do you mean 255 40 17 Kumho Victoracer? The MX won't be competative.

 

Good catch kevo. I was thinking of my street tires.

 

The SAFC alone is probably not enough for satisfactory tuning. Adding a reflash or something like the Xede or Utec (skipping boost control and fuel cut mods on either) would be better, especially if you are going with the HKS RS intake.

 

also make sure the upper IC pipe supports the stock compressor bypass valve. (aka BOV) The seats are nice but not nessesary right away. concentrate on a good safety harness. I would also go with an Xede (with the boost control disabled) instead of the SAFC.

You also may want to consider slotted brakes and upgraded pads along with the SS brakes lines.

 

Pottsville? You close to central PA?

If you buy a suspension buy something that's tuned for your driving style / application. Call or email John at Road Race Engineering for a setup. I wouldn't fool to much with the power modifications to start with. Get your suspension/tires straight first.

 

Check out Joe250.com if you want to build a ESP Evo to win a national championship.

 

Are harness bars legal in SP? I was just wondering if they might be deemed illegal chassis stiffening

 

While I don't have an Evo, I do have a continually evolving national-prep SP car, so I just wanted to add some other thoughts to stir the pot.

"Off-the-shelf" JIC coilovers probably aren't enough, or stiff enough. There will probably be a good amount of playing with spring rates and bars to get things right, unless you go the suspension modeling route (sccaforums joke..). There's a lot of toying with adjustments to get things right. I'd also be curious what shocks come with the JICs; has anyone ever had them dyno'd? I've driven on them, and they certainly controlled the springs well, but "good enough" has never been a competitive racer's mantra.

Remember also that autocross is, IMHO, entirely different in vehicle dynamics than road racing. It's all transitional; even the steady-state stuff has very large transitional elements compared to a track. This should factor into setup.

Being in FSP now, I'm a burgeoning weight junkie. Sway bars are heavy. Hollow sway bars rock. No sway bars, if you can get away with it, are certainly lighter

Brake pads!!! World of difference. Carbotech or HP+.

I can't imagine a 255 being enough for the Evo. Gearing is important in wheel/tire choices as well. The 18" solutions are great because they're enormous, have nice short sidewalls, and are shorter than any of the big 17" options. Be prepared to do some cutting.

Get creative with seats..especially the passenger seat. Seat rails can be heavy or not.
No radio, no AC, RS UD/BD stuff (or just start with an RS).

Another opinion thing for me. I think there is A LOT of hp out there for an SP Evo. A lot of people underestimate power when it comes to autocross, and it's true it's not the end all be all some people think it is when they start out, but it is important. Very important. I suspect the 4G63 is pretty robust after over a decade of tuning, I'd still be interested to see what balancing did. Portmatching, intake manifold, nice light tubular manifold and exhaust, underdrive pulleys, intercooler and piping, and most importantly, tuning. You can't change the boost, so get as much air as possible in at stock boost levels and match the fuel properly. I understand the AEM EMS setup is really nice, siastuning.com and Tec-3, or the cheaper SDS setup. I think there's lots out there. Clutch, I understand, is a fairly obvious choice: Exedy Twin plate. Flywheel, not so obvious. I don't know all the ins and outs of flywheel choice for a turbo car.

Lightweight batteries are cheap. I'm also a big fan of moving the battery. It's essentially the only piece of mass that you can legally move any significant distance in SP. Polar moment is the enemy of good transitional response. Same goes here for roll center and center of gravity.

Other things I think about:
How are the motor mounts on a 4G63? Does the exhaust really need to exit at the rear of the car? How much does that alternator weigh? How about the starter? How much does the fan/fan shroud weigh? Do the seatbelts get in the way of the harnesses? Should I use the seatbelt bolts for the harnesses? (Excuses to remove seatbelts..) How much does the brake booster/master cylinder weigh? (Much bigger brakes than me so this is probably a nonissue) How much caster/camber can I get/do I want? How much does the airbag steering wheel weigh? What wheel backspacing will get me the least amount of scrub radius? There's more, but I'll stop there.

Note: The SP world of old VWs is significantly different (and less expensive), so some of these questions may or may not provide any kind of real-world difference. But when you lose a race by .003 seconds, you start to wonder how much tossing around 10 less lbs would have effected your times.

I'd be really curious to hear some weight or power numbers from Eric Stemler's car, which I understand to be the best prepped out there right now. AWESOME times at Peru.

 

A good question to ask here, and to give out advice appropriately, is what is your goal in running an SP Evo?

Do you want to have a car capable of winning national level events? Or will you be happy to win locally? What is your driving level? If you're not running at the top of the order locally, you probably don't need to start building a nationally competitive car.

Do you want to maintain the car as a daily driver? This has huge implications on your prep decisions.

If your goal is a trailered pampered nationally competitive car, you need to at least think about everything Greg mentioned. Get every ounce out of the car that you can. Do what you need to to fit 275 or 285 tires. Run the lightest straightest no-cat exhaust that you can, and dyno tune the car for race gasoline. An S-AFC is cheap and effective for what it does, but you need something that can control spark timing. The stock ECU has to stay because it controls boost, but use a piggyback tuning module that controls fuel and spark. In SP trim, there is no such thing as too much power for the Evo. My SM Evo is putting down more power than is probably possible in SP, and I can and do use all of it.

OTOH, if you want a car that gets you most of the SP performance benefit while staying on a reasonable budget and maintaining streetability, you can manage with just a few items: FLT-A2s with custom springs, 17x9 wheels, 245 Hoosiers or 255 Kumhos, a full turbo-back 3" exhaust, and an ECU piggyback with fuel/spark tuning. IMO, such a prepped car could be within 0.5 seconds (on a 50 second course) of a full-rule-book-prepped SP Evo.

 

I agree. This past season I competed in ESP with essentially a stock EVO in a variety of different alignment specs and other tweaks.

With 245 falkin Azenis tires, stock suspension, I have been consistantly 2-2.5 seconds behind Navid (driving Joe250's EVO ).

After adding coilovers, that gap was reduced to ~1.5 second.

That gap can be further reduced with the allowed power mods.

 

Good point Jack. I assumed national level for my post simply because a national championship was mentioned in there somewhere. Everything I said assumed a national level driver and the desire to go to that level.

I also feel the need to qualify the .5 second remark. Given a competitive local driver that's fair, although I'm still not sure. When FT moved from Toyos to Hoosiers he seemed to have dropped roughly ~1 s, and that's with having to do all sorts of suspension changes to make it fit. When all is said and done, it will be more. Granted that's a significant change.. but, yeah. With a top-level national driver than can take advantage of allowances, I tend to think that number is more significant. IMHO.

 

I was going to mention something about FT's car, but wasn't really sure what to say. His STi is a good example of a car which is prepped according to my "budget" recipe for success. He has focused on spending time and money on the right areas, where the big performance jumps happen, and has spent the time wisely in getting the details right. I don't think he has any "easy" improvements left in his car since he switched to Hoosiers. His codriver Mike PAXed within 0.25 seconds of Brian Garfield at the last local event -- and Brian is clearly a national level driver in a rulebook-prepped car. If FT and Mike can find another 1.0 seconds in that car, then I'll personally write the letter to the SEB to have the car moved to BSP.

 

I cannot add much beyond what Jack and Greg have mentioned thus far; it is pretty complete

But since our STi got mentioned, I'll add few notes on it

Our first priority in 2004 was to be able to maximize the chassis of the STi to see how far we can take it (given our driving ability). Thus far with all the tuning and little details we have focused on, leaving engine complete unchanged and without any weight savings (besides the FLTA2-RS units, 30 lbs), I am pretty confident that we can gain an additional 1.5 to 2 seconds on a 60-sec course base. It may seem too bold a goal, but believe me, we know how to do it. Will we be able to do it, is another question of course

It is a matter of budget at this time, but I'd like to say that we should be able to do at least 50% of the plan. And weight savings and engine are at the very top of the priority list at this time

But, we are not fooling ourselves, I am pretty confident we will be moved to BSP and that's how we are preparing

 

According to my knowledge, you can't be running in ESP class if you upgrade your suspention to coil-overs, check with the SCCA hand book.

https://www.evolutionm.net/registry/...e.php?vid=2895

I am running ESP, no suspention mods really. Tires running are Falken Azinus 245 45 17. my Evo is putting down 320hp to the ground on the dyno.