SCCA to make decision on ESP
 

I spoke with a member of the SEB last week. She said that they are having an emergency meeting to go over the Evo in ESP, and have it published before the first prosolo which is in the 2nd week of March.

So we have at most a few weeks to write a short letter. BSP would be a losing battle, 2003 FS champ Junior Johnson could not beat the 4th place nat' AS C4 in our last event in my 2nd place Evo. And BSP C4s are way faster than AS.

It's surprising how few letters get sent in pro or con, so your comments count.

Thanks,
Rick

Anyone doing the Ft Meyers Tour?

interesting...

I think it's a bad idea to move it, but whatever.... If the EVO get thrown into BSP, then given the PAX, I'll move to SM and play with full boost control.

Oh yeah, how about a link for an email address so we can ***** as loud as winechell....

The email addresses are Dgill@scca.com and SEB@scca.com

SM would be fun, but tough on the national level. AS looks like an uphill battle also, but we will see day after tomorrow in the AZ NT, maybe course dependant.

If we could get 5 of the regular posters to support the Evo, it would help give the Evo a competive class to race in.

Why dont they just have an AWD class. Or Evo and Sti class that would be a good class.

I wrote them a while back. I'll do it again. The Evo wouldn't be competitive in my area in BSP or AS. I will run SM if it comes down to it.
ESP is really the perfect fit for the Evo. It is very competitive but by no means dominates the class.

Why? There are not enough cars to fill that style of run group. If you extended it for all "AWD turbo cars", then how is a Mazda 323 gtx going to compete fairly against an EVO?

In ESP you have essentially a street prepared class that is dominated by the mustang and camaro. All of the other classes have been adjusted for all the new makes and models except ESP.

I'm still amazed the Evo RS is classed in AS... I think I'll still run ESP this year unless it's reclassed. If it's in BSP, I'll just do fun runs or do a couple events in SM. This year is going to be all about track days!!

Re: SCCA to make decision on ESP
 

First ProSolo of the year is Feb. 14-15 in Atlanta, a little over 3 weeks away.

I'm probably about to get flamed here, but I don't think the car should be in ESP, simply because if you look at the PAX b/w AS and ESP, ESP has a LOWER PAX than AS !!!
So basically, you can make your car much faster than stock, and still have a better index than stock.

Doesn't make any sense to me, regardless of whether the evo fits in ESP or not.

Frankly the PAX # does not mean anything. It is not like you are competing against the entire field, you are competing within a class. So, making classing decisions based on PAX does not make much sense IMHO.

I also used to think the that since AS > ESP then the Evo/STi doesn't belong in ESP. But I've changed my mind...

PAX is based on performance of the top drivers at the national and pro events, right? So it's an indicator of the speed of the drivers in the class. The PAX is a result of how the cars have been classed. It should not be used to determine how a car should be classed. If/when the Evo and STi go into ESP and become "class killers" then the ESP PAX will rise and everything will be "right." ;)

Unfortunately here in Austin there is not much competition in AS or ESP, so I don't have enough experience to say if I think the Evo is under- or over-classed in either AS or ESP. Looking at some results and talking to some folks, though, I think it is outclassed in AS by the C4s and Boxsters. But I don't necessarily think it shouldn't be classed in AS.

I dunno about ESP, but I agree with chrisw that it sounds like this may be more of a case of some stubborn folks digging their heels in to keep the class the way it is now and resist changes.

Classing on PAX is not reliable. PAX's change every year. But I don't believe the EVO will stay in ESP. The paper numbers look on line with Mustangs/Camarobirds, but that is not everything in autocross. And AS to ESP is unheard of. The only other one I can find is the Saleen Mustang nonsupercharged.

Another valid argument, but the ESP faithful in ponycars that do not want to see change will not buy that. And then the EVO will bump out to BSP anyway because it is underclassed after the SEB looks at results for the year. I don't have a dog in the ESP hunt (I drove a FS Mustang a few years back and it pales in comparison to an EVO) , but I don't think the outcry Winchell bellowed about underclassing is relevant until proven nationally on a dry day . But I have a feeling that day will come sooner than any of us think. The EVO is too good a car out of the box.

My 0.02's...as intellectually curious as they may be.

Jason

Everyone should send an Email...
 

Here is what I sent to Doug Gill and the SEB.


To SEB --

I would just like to voice my disappointment. I am now hearing that the Lancer Evolution may not be classed in ESP for 2004. I have been slowly setting up my Evo for ESP since last year and am not happy about a possible last minute change in classing. I have been a Philly SCCA member since 2000 and participate in many of the National events. I was even planning on going to Topeka this year for the Championship. From my autox experience and my knowledge of the class (ESP) and my car, I feel it is a perfect fit in ESP. At the very least, give the Evolution one year in ESP. This is the only clear way to prove one way or the other whether it fits in ESP. If it is bumped to BSP, it will definately not be competitive and no Nationally competitive drivers will compete in an Evo, and we will never know the car's true abilities.

Thank you for considering my argument to keep the Evo in ESP and I hope the correct decision is made.

Philly Region SCCA member
2003 Rally Red Lancer Evolution

TurboDad - you prep the car for SP, not ESP. The regs' are the same for all of SP, the classes within SP simply represent the different capabilities expected of SP-prepped cars.

PAX does mean quite a bit, it's a very good equaliser, and it's fairly accurate too, within the context of its metrics.


It doesn't make sense that the EVO is AS and ESP - the question is which is the incorrect class. I don't think this will be answered until the 2005 season; I don't think the EVO is the uber-car the Winchell's of the world fear, and I do think it will get spanked by top-dog ESP cars with national champion calibre drivers. I only know of 1 definite and one presumed national calibre Evo/driver combination out there right now (there could easily be more of course - anybody know if Bret Norgaard is EVO-shod again ?). If they can get their cars incredibly well dialed in (for the time available), they may dominate, but it's not that likely. If they do dominate at the end of one season, then clearly the EVO should be bumped up a class. As a general rule, it takes several seasons of intense effort to extract the best from a car model - note that the 2G DSM is still not fully developed, it's still getting faster. If a new model blows away an established class in its first full season, you can bet it's going to end up competitive in the next class up.


The reality for "us lot" here on this list is that we're going to get spanked repeatedly no matter what we drive - at best we're all just average regional drivers. I spanked every EVO and STi that showed up in my region - plus every Porsche too, including an AWD Twin Turbo. Hooray for me, right ? Not quite...I got spanked even more severly by a pair of HS drivers - yes, HS - one in a 318 BMW, t'other in a Civic. That's a stock Civic, early 80's vintage. One Matt Murray and a certain Chang Ho Kim. And by others too, but they're - or their cars - the most amusing.

Charles

But you can understand that Trbo Dad might prep a car for ESP, but not for BSP, right? He may feel that the car is competitive in ESP, but not in BSP. If the car ends up in BSP, perhaps he would have preferred to keep it stock, or to jump over SP right into Street Mod.

Note that there are some SP mods which might not make much sense for someone going to SM. For instance, brakes are unrestricted in SM, so any brake upgrades done for SP may be wasted when a full brake upgrade (including master cylinder, lines, calipers, rotors, and pads) is installed.

So a competitor prepping for a season in ESP, then finding the car in BSP, could be stuck with either going back to Stock (wasted money and effort), running in BSP (maybe not very successfully), or running in SM (more expensive, plus maybe some wasted money and effort).