Manifold to Turbo Bolts Backed Off, Again
 

I know there have been multiple threads on this issue before, but everything has been tried. My 2011 X has an MAP Cast manafold and a Garrett GTX3071R Turbo. After having an ETS turbo back and the Garrett installed late last year, same bolts backed off along with downpipe bolts after second 20 minute session at Sonoma. This was not the first time same bolts came loose with stock turbo. Shop thought vibration and recommend replacing motor mounts. Torque Solutions Motor and Trans Mount were installed. Shop also used all of the best locking nuts/washers and drilled the bolt heads and safety wired two of the bolts. Exhaust manifold flange was also milled. After two and a half track days the manifold to turbo bolt backed off again. Safety wire melted, along with my AFR gauge wire. The cam sensor wires are also not looking good.

I have had two non-Evo shops suggest that the problem is excusive heat either from too hot exhaust gas or not enough air flow over the manafold/turbo. Could a sketchy tune be the problem? My current tune runs a tad lean (~12) towards redline. My next step is to find a new Evo shop that can take a fresh look at the problem. Any shop suggestions in Norther California are welcome.

Are you retorquing them after heat cycles?

Also, is 12 AFR on pump gas?

The safety wire melted? Yeah that might be getting too hot. Mitsu runs these things crazy rich stock for a reason.

Going to assume that happened after the gasket failed. That area basically turns into a blow torch at that point. Or, they used crap safety wire.

12:1 AFR out the top sounds pretty lean for a track car though, right? Especially if its a lower volume fuel like gasoline.

Yes, I don't even run that on full E85 on track.

My MAP manifold was coming loose during normal street driving and I found it was due to installation errors, primarily the washers being installed incorrectly.

While I was reinstalling the manifold myself, I asked MAP if they had an installation guide and gave them a bit of my back story. They didn't have an installation guide; however, they did send me a revised hardware kit which was supposed to stop things coming loose. The bolts and washers are different, most noticeably the longest of the bolts between the manifold and turbo has a standard bolt head opposed to a hex.

It might be worth looking into while you have things apart.

ER did a test a long time ago and on E they didn't really make any more power from 11:1 to 12:1, but they were able to get away with more timing being richer. Just seems 11:1 is the right place to be on E (as far as what the sensor reads).

I agree with that. However, from my experience what does change is response. It feels a bit mushier when run richer. I found 11.4-11.5 to be a good compromise for track use on E85

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm running 91 pump gas. I did see3 a recent thread regarding the manifold and it does sound like errors can be made. However, the shop that installed it has done dozens of Evos. The leaning out may well be the problem. I took it easy the first two track days after the install and used the paddles instead of auto, so I never got even close to redline. Last track day I used S-Sport Auto which is one gear less in many parts of the track. So a new shop and a new tune is in my future.

You're going to melt more than the manifold gasket running 12 AFR on 91 on track. I would get the tuned checked asap.

Check https://www.stage8.com/

Have had lots of friends use them with good success.

There's also Nord locks or just using the dual Bellville conical washers like OEM. I use a stock frame turbo so the OEM washers work great for me.

Yep it happens. The only reason the wires would have melted is if they simply did it wrong and the bolts backed out enough to let the flames blow on the wire itself. Or as he said crap wire that broke. Always use aircraft grade stainless wire in the biggest gauge that'll fit the holes in the bolts. A good step as well is to look into replacing the bolts with Ti ones that are already pre-drilled for this, and they won't strech. The MotoGP guys do this all the time and those sites usually have good stocks. The "safety wire" you find at Home Depot is for hanging pictures, not holding in the dragon.

Also it seems to be fairly common with the MAP cast's. 2nd one I've had now. 4th or 5th person I've heard complain about it happening over and over. It could be as simple as the material their supplier used simply expands too much even if you were running 10.0. Dunno.

I've been running the MAP manifold for multiple seasons with a custom turbo. The torque procedure is key, as well as the washers. Whenever my turbo is removed ALL ASSOCIATED hardware is replaced - bolts, gaskets, and belleville washers MUST be installed correctly. The torque procedure whereby a rotation gauge is used AFTER meeting a torque spec is designed by MHI to properly preload the belleville washers so that they are at the proper compression to handle the heat cycles while maintaining clamping force.

Here is what the washers look like when properly installed:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...6b3d8516fb.jpg


That image was from this post about that hardware I did a while back:

turbo stud and install