My Experience with Bell Mitsubishi’s Service Department
Sep 2, 2010, 08:21 AM
#1
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
My Experience with Bell Mitsubishi’s Service Department
Disclaimer: I have no hard feelings against Mike Ko of Bell Mitsubishi and TSE, he is a stand up guy and tried to help me out but this is simply against the service department of Bell Mitsubishi and how I feel I was mistreated.
I purchased my 2010 WW GSR SSS brand new from Bell Mitsubishi in June 2010. Bell Mitsubishi is about 45 minutes(if no traffic, over an hour with traffic) from my house and there are at least 2 closer dealerships I could have purchased from. Mike Ko, owner of TSE(I am a paid supporter of) and sales manager of Bell Mitsubishi was the reason I purchased from Bell. Assuring if I had warranty concerns or issues they would do their best to work with me if I customized the vehicle.
This is my first AWD vehicle but I have owned a 4WD truck in the past. I mention this because from the very beginning I noticed that while make sharp low speed turns, such as you would do in a parking lot, it felt like it was binding up under the car, drivetrain related. I wrote it off initially thinking maybe it was just the AWD system because I remembered feeling something very similar from 4WD trucks when the 4WD was engaged and doing the same type of motions. A month or so goes by and the binding feeling during turns turned into a loud clicking then a loud clunking. I also noticed a sound when turning the wheel and stopped that sounded like rubber against metal. This is now August and I had planned on installing my JIC coilovers soon and figured I would put that in and see if the noises went away and went into work the next day and did exactly that. (I had emailed Mike Ko of Bell Mitsubishi and told him my complaints and plans). I found the rubber blocks still installed in the front springs from shipping, showing me that the vehicle PDI inspection had not been completed fully as I had been told it had been when I picked the car up new. I installed the coilovers and the noise went away for about a week. As the suspension settled the clunking noise came back. I then called Bell Mitsubishi to explain what was going on and made an appointment to see Nelson, the service director.
I arrived at Bell Mitsubishi and signed in with Nelson where he told me they charge a $97(plus taxes and fees, total of around $115) diagnostic charge to look at the car but since the car was new and its under warranty that if they deemed it a warranty issue I would not be held responsible for that. Me, knowing it IS indeed a warranty issue and I no other concerns figured that was fine. I waited over an hour for an answer and they brought me out by the car and explained some findings and noises they found. They said my CBE was rubbing the frame and needed to be adjusted. They also said my intake needed to be mounted better because it can throw off my AFR and knock sensor. They also found my newly installed left front coilover had play because the height adjustment ring had come loose(my fault). They told me they could not duplicate my original complaint and the noises were probably from my loose coilover or my exhaust rattle. I knew for a fact that was BS as I had ZERO noise from either. And a loose coilover would cause a clunk over bumps, which my noise was not. They said I needed to address the other issues and put the stock suspension back in. As you could imagine, I was pretty upset that I had to go back home and put the stock suspension back in and bring it back and that I wasted about 2.5 hours at the dealership arguing with them over my noises. Then, they insisted I pay the diagnostic charge even though all they did was my free oil change and a visual inspection(the same type of visual inspection I offer my customers vehicles for FREE every time their car is in my shop). I talked to Mike Ko outside and explained to him my frustrations over needing to pay for a diag charge since they didn’t even address or find my original complaint and he said he would try to have them take it off todays bill and put on my bill next time I came in after the stock suspension was in. This way I wouldn’t be out the money since I knew it was a warranty issue and I felt they did nothing that day to deserve over $100 of my money on a brand new vehicle. Nelson would not have it and would not release the car until it was paid even though I told him I would be back in about a week. All he did was tell me that next time he will do me a favor and not charge me to look at it. Ha, thanks for nothing.
That same day I bring the car back to my shop and addressed their concerns about the coilovers and exhaust and intake in less than 10 minutes on a lift. The next day when I had more time we reinstalled the stock suspension. The noise was gone for a few days and then came back. (I believe its related to the CV axles and when the car is suspended on a lift and the cv axles extend with suspension travel that the noise goes away until the car settles again).
A week or 2 passes until I find time to get my car back to Bell Mitsubishi and I hear the noise every single day. I dropped it off late night and borrowed a car the next day since apparently Mitsubishi doesn’t have a loaner program and the rental reimbursement policy didn’t sound too reassuring. I call Nelson early to touch base and waited for his call. Keep in mind, this is a noise I hear every single day multiple times a day. It s not something that only happens once in a while. It happened the day I dropped it off multiple times. Nelson told me they still could not duplicate the noise and insisted the noise was caused by my coilovers and there was nothing they could do for me since they cant duplicate the noise and everything is fine. I was astonished and could not believe it and told them to drive it more. Still, no noise supposedly. Nelson suggested I try a dealership closer to me so I stop wasting my time driving there. I picked the car up that night park the car home, leave for work the next day and sure enough, theres the noise!
I called the local dealership(46 mitsubshi) and explained to the woman there my problems and she couldn’t believe I was charged over $100 to look at the car and explained they have no diag charge for cars under warranty and they usually just charge for diagnositics if they have check engine lights. I feel taken advantage of by Bell Mitsubishi for my time and even more so my money. Especially knowing that the noise was without a doubt there the first time when I was there with the car waiting and they refused to take the car for another drive or even let the tech drive with me in the parking lot, telling me that my car was unsafe to drive. I have wasted countless hours driving there(and my girlfriends since she had to follow me to pick me up and drop me off) and back as well as many hours working on the car swapping suspension and wasted money on gas.
I can understand not being able to duplicate a noise, I deal with it every day, but I don’t feel like I should have had to pay and feel like I at least deserve my money back since they never were able to address my original complaint. Anyone have any suggestions on who to contact? Mitsubishi North America maybe?
I purchased my 2010 WW GSR SSS brand new from Bell Mitsubishi in June 2010. Bell Mitsubishi is about 45 minutes(if no traffic, over an hour with traffic) from my house and there are at least 2 closer dealerships I could have purchased from. Mike Ko, owner of TSE(I am a paid supporter of) and sales manager of Bell Mitsubishi was the reason I purchased from Bell. Assuring if I had warranty concerns or issues they would do their best to work with me if I customized the vehicle.
This is my first AWD vehicle but I have owned a 4WD truck in the past. I mention this because from the very beginning I noticed that while make sharp low speed turns, such as you would do in a parking lot, it felt like it was binding up under the car, drivetrain related. I wrote it off initially thinking maybe it was just the AWD system because I remembered feeling something very similar from 4WD trucks when the 4WD was engaged and doing the same type of motions. A month or so goes by and the binding feeling during turns turned into a loud clicking then a loud clunking. I also noticed a sound when turning the wheel and stopped that sounded like rubber against metal. This is now August and I had planned on installing my JIC coilovers soon and figured I would put that in and see if the noises went away and went into work the next day and did exactly that. (I had emailed Mike Ko of Bell Mitsubishi and told him my complaints and plans). I found the rubber blocks still installed in the front springs from shipping, showing me that the vehicle PDI inspection had not been completed fully as I had been told it had been when I picked the car up new. I installed the coilovers and the noise went away for about a week. As the suspension settled the clunking noise came back. I then called Bell Mitsubishi to explain what was going on and made an appointment to see Nelson, the service director.
I arrived at Bell Mitsubishi and signed in with Nelson where he told me they charge a $97(plus taxes and fees, total of around $115) diagnostic charge to look at the car but since the car was new and its under warranty that if they deemed it a warranty issue I would not be held responsible for that. Me, knowing it IS indeed a warranty issue and I no other concerns figured that was fine. I waited over an hour for an answer and they brought me out by the car and explained some findings and noises they found. They said my CBE was rubbing the frame and needed to be adjusted. They also said my intake needed to be mounted better because it can throw off my AFR and knock sensor. They also found my newly installed left front coilover had play because the height adjustment ring had come loose(my fault). They told me they could not duplicate my original complaint and the noises were probably from my loose coilover or my exhaust rattle. I knew for a fact that was BS as I had ZERO noise from either. And a loose coilover would cause a clunk over bumps, which my noise was not. They said I needed to address the other issues and put the stock suspension back in. As you could imagine, I was pretty upset that I had to go back home and put the stock suspension back in and bring it back and that I wasted about 2.5 hours at the dealership arguing with them over my noises. Then, they insisted I pay the diagnostic charge even though all they did was my free oil change and a visual inspection(the same type of visual inspection I offer my customers vehicles for FREE every time their car is in my shop). I talked to Mike Ko outside and explained to him my frustrations over needing to pay for a diag charge since they didn’t even address or find my original complaint and he said he would try to have them take it off todays bill and put on my bill next time I came in after the stock suspension was in. This way I wouldn’t be out the money since I knew it was a warranty issue and I felt they did nothing that day to deserve over $100 of my money on a brand new vehicle. Nelson would not have it and would not release the car until it was paid even though I told him I would be back in about a week. All he did was tell me that next time he will do me a favor and not charge me to look at it. Ha, thanks for nothing.
That same day I bring the car back to my shop and addressed their concerns about the coilovers and exhaust and intake in less than 10 minutes on a lift. The next day when I had more time we reinstalled the stock suspension. The noise was gone for a few days and then came back. (I believe its related to the CV axles and when the car is suspended on a lift and the cv axles extend with suspension travel that the noise goes away until the car settles again).
A week or 2 passes until I find time to get my car back to Bell Mitsubishi and I hear the noise every single day. I dropped it off late night and borrowed a car the next day since apparently Mitsubishi doesn’t have a loaner program and the rental reimbursement policy didn’t sound too reassuring. I call Nelson early to touch base and waited for his call. Keep in mind, this is a noise I hear every single day multiple times a day. It s not something that only happens once in a while. It happened the day I dropped it off multiple times. Nelson told me they still could not duplicate the noise and insisted the noise was caused by my coilovers and there was nothing they could do for me since they cant duplicate the noise and everything is fine. I was astonished and could not believe it and told them to drive it more. Still, no noise supposedly. Nelson suggested I try a dealership closer to me so I stop wasting my time driving there. I picked the car up that night park the car home, leave for work the next day and sure enough, theres the noise!
I called the local dealership(46 mitsubshi) and explained to the woman there my problems and she couldn’t believe I was charged over $100 to look at the car and explained they have no diag charge for cars under warranty and they usually just charge for diagnositics if they have check engine lights. I feel taken advantage of by Bell Mitsubishi for my time and even more so my money. Especially knowing that the noise was without a doubt there the first time when I was there with the car waiting and they refused to take the car for another drive or even let the tech drive with me in the parking lot, telling me that my car was unsafe to drive. I have wasted countless hours driving there(and my girlfriends since she had to follow me to pick me up and drop me off) and back as well as many hours working on the car swapping suspension and wasted money on gas.
I can understand not being able to duplicate a noise, I deal with it every day, but I don’t feel like I should have had to pay and feel like I at least deserve my money back since they never were able to address my original complaint. Anyone have any suggestions on who to contact? Mitsubishi North America maybe?
Sep 2, 2010, 08:28 AM
#2
Evolved Member
Okay, let me get this straight - the car started making the noises *AFTER* the mods were installed or before?
If before, I have to ask, why would you put mods on a car with a problem and then expect a dealer to be able to diagnose it (at best) or at worst, void part or all of your warranty?
IF these were dealer installed mods (except for the CO's which it seems like you said you installed) then I don't see how you can be upset with them for charging you a diagnostic fee (or at least telling you up front that there IS a charge, if its not covered under warranty) If all the problem is dealer installed work, most dealer's I know will warranty their work but not the part themselves. So if its a faulty part, but not a bad install, the customer ends up paying.
Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.
If before, I have to ask, why would you put mods on a car with a problem and then expect a dealer to be able to diagnose it (at best) or at worst, void part or all of your warranty?
IF these were dealer installed mods (except for the CO's which it seems like you said you installed) then I don't see how you can be upset with them for charging you a diagnostic fee (or at least telling you up front that there IS a charge, if its not covered under warranty) If all the problem is dealer installed work, most dealer's I know will warranty their work but not the part themselves. So if its a faulty part, but not a bad install, the customer ends up paying.
Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.
Sep 2, 2010, 09:16 AM
#4
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
the coilovers have NOTHING to do with the noise. its not a suspension noise. hence why i sent mike an email with my intentions. never did i get a response that it was a bad idea and leave the stock **** in there. all the mods were installed by myself.
they told me they wanted to fix the car just put the stock suspension back in. which i did. noise STILL exists with either suspension. and im still out over $100 for them to tell me they couldnt duplicate a noise and for an inspection that should have been free
they told me they wanted to fix the car just put the stock suspension back in. which i did. noise STILL exists with either suspension. and im still out over $100 for them to tell me they couldnt duplicate a noise and for an inspection that should have been free
Sep 2, 2010, 11:26 AM
#5
Evolved Member
the coilovers have NOTHING to do with the noise. its not a suspension noise. hence why i sent mike an email with my intentions. never did i get a response that it was a bad idea and leave the stock **** in there. all the mods were installed by myself.
they told me they wanted to fix the car just put the stock suspension back in. which i did. noise STILL exists with either suspension. and im still out over $100 for them to tell me they couldnt duplicate a noise and for an inspection that should have been free
they told me they wanted to fix the car just put the stock suspension back in. which i did. noise STILL exists with either suspension. and im still out over $100 for them to tell me they couldnt duplicate a noise and for an inspection that should have been free
Again, just playing devil's advocate because I am in this business - this is poor behavior because they took your money, but it isn't unheard of. Most dealers won't even *look* at a car with mods. They don't want to waste their time and get into potential quagmires like this with customers. They will always place blame on mods if they do. That's why modding a new car with expected warranty work is a tricky business that may or may not turn out pleasant for a customer. I wouldn't ever go there again myself and it sucks you had to lose $100 (and a lot of time) to find that out the hard way.
Sep 2, 2010, 12:04 PM
#6
Good for you for reaching out TJ - I respect that.
Is the issue resolved now or not? If not, get the car back to stock and have Bell or 46 fix it.
Now here' s a little business advice. Advice is only worth what you pay for it so feel free to dismiss.
It's too bad you lost out on time but you chose to go to Bell, right. If Mike told you to go there, hold his feet to the fire, but if not, then you have to live with the choice you made.
If this is about the $100, I don't blame them for charging you for a diagnosis on a modified car. If 46 wouldn't charge you this time, that's nice of them, but they're not in the business of being nice. Beware of next time.
This is an issue of your feelings, and possibly the compounded effect of your GF spending time on the witch hunt can make matters worse, BTDT.
Go speak with Mike and check your feelings at the door. Mike and Nelson are both reasonable guys. I'm not their customer, friend or colleague, just a guy that has dealt with them in the past and has seen how they treat some other Evo owners.
Again, I respect you reaching out the way you did and I'd probably be upset too if I were in your shoes.
Is the issue resolved now or not? If not, get the car back to stock and have Bell or 46 fix it.
Now here' s a little business advice. Advice is only worth what you pay for it so feel free to dismiss.
It's too bad you lost out on time but you chose to go to Bell, right. If Mike told you to go there, hold his feet to the fire, but if not, then you have to live with the choice you made.
If this is about the $100, I don't blame them for charging you for a diagnosis on a modified car. If 46 wouldn't charge you this time, that's nice of them, but they're not in the business of being nice. Beware of next time.
This is an issue of your feelings, and possibly the compounded effect of your GF spending time on the witch hunt can make matters worse, BTDT.
Go speak with Mike and check your feelings at the door. Mike and Nelson are both reasonable guys. I'm not their customer, friend or colleague, just a guy that has dealt with them in the past and has seen how they treat some other Evo owners.
Again, I respect you reaching out the way you did and I'd probably be upset too if I were in your shoes.
Sep 2, 2010, 12:34 PM
#7
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
the car is back to stock right now(suspension at least), and its killing me because i want my coilovers back in ASAP. first set of coilovers ive owned too and now im hooked! the car is so much different without them.
i plan on going for a quick drive now to verify the noise again and making an appointment with 46 mitsu for tomorrow since i have off.
i plan on going for a quick drive now to verify the noise again and making an appointment with 46 mitsu for tomorrow since i have off.
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Sep 2, 2010, 12:50 PM
#9
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
they wouldnt allow it, stating my car was unsafe the first time. second time i had to do drop it off and night and pick it up at night because i work 7am-6pm everyday during the week. and i have off fridays but didnt wanna leave it on a friday in case they needed the car overnight to order parts and then id be stuck **maybe** paying for a rental over the weekend when they cant even work on it.
Sep 2, 2010, 01:03 PM
#11
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If the noise was present before you installed the coilovers, you definitely should have brought it in then. Now the dealer can (is) blame everything on the coilovers.
For identifying and fixing the noise, I would recommend that you insist on going for a test drive with their shop foreman, service manager and/or one of their better techs. If you all agree that there is a noise, you must get them to admit that it is not normal. After that they can no longer give you the "unable to duplicate customer's concern" line. Getting them to admit a problem is often the hardest part.
It is possible that the Tech who has been looking at your car doesn't know what is causing the noise. He may know what is causing the noise and doesn't want to fix it. Especially if it would end up being a warranty repair. Techs can often lose time ($$) on warranty repairs. Especially if it is very involved, and new to the tech. Less than honest Techs will rarely volunteer to replace a torn C/V boot under warranty is the customer isn't complaining about it.
Good luck getting everything sorted out.
*note* I'm not trying to badmouth mechanics. They are not dishonest as a whole. It does seem easy to become disgruntled in the profession though.
For identifying and fixing the noise, I would recommend that you insist on going for a test drive with their shop foreman, service manager and/or one of their better techs. If you all agree that there is a noise, you must get them to admit that it is not normal. After that they can no longer give you the "unable to duplicate customer's concern" line. Getting them to admit a problem is often the hardest part.
It is possible that the Tech who has been looking at your car doesn't know what is causing the noise. He may know what is causing the noise and doesn't want to fix it. Especially if it would end up being a warranty repair. Techs can often lose time ($$) on warranty repairs. Especially if it is very involved, and new to the tech. Less than honest Techs will rarely volunteer to replace a torn C/V boot under warranty is the customer isn't complaining about it.
Good luck getting everything sorted out.
*note* I'm not trying to badmouth mechanics. They are not dishonest as a whole. It does seem easy to become disgruntled in the profession though.
Sep 2, 2010, 07:38 PM
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i know mike most likely wont even come here to defend him but he probably gave a very neutral advice regarding the coilovers. i have a hunch he said along the line of "it may or may not fix it, but its your call so try it" and the TJ being an evo noob took it too directly.
unfortunately adding the coilover to troubleshoot is the worst possible decision; you truely shot yourself in the foot by adding mods in a warranty situation.
next dealer you go, dont even mention coilovers were in there. YOU know the issue happened before it, dont add salt to the wound.
unfortunately adding the coilover to troubleshoot is the worst possible decision; you truely shot yourself in the foot by adding mods in a warranty situation.
next dealer you go, dont even mention coilovers were in there. YOU know the issue happened before it, dont add salt to the wound.
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