RNR,

Your opinion sucks then. Take a look at the pictures, are you freaking blind?! Hell the picture back on page one is of ours above and the one YOU SHIPPED to a customer below. That piece of **** is better than ours?! hahahahahahaha

The exhaust is some pieced together crap. Our complete system is one continuous length of stainless, not a bunch of welded up sections you bought from JC Whitney that are going to fail in the future. That rear mount on your exhaust is also a joke, it won't be long before it tears out of the systems.

You have continued to release parts after we do and basically priced, named and copied them exactly, well other than the quality completely sucks.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

Ok this is getting rediculous. I am not saying that Ryan didn't make a mistake since it was a problem for me, but he is taking care of it. Also, I do feel that I shouldn't have had a problem at all in the first place. I will post up the results when I get my new stuff this Saturday.

So no further replies to this thread untill I have put up my results from this weekend. Thanks.

RnR just got http://www.eclipseforums.org/forum/i...lies/owned.gif {pick} http://www.eclipseforums.org/forum/i...lies/laugh.gif http://forums.maxima.org/images/smilies/rofl.gif

are you saying bpclements's opinion sucks?

Buschur, this is what your system features that you claim is so great.


If you order a Buschur system then you get an exhaust that


bangs on the rear diff
is impossible to get put together right becasue it comes in 5 sections
burns the rear bumper black on your brand new car
extremely loud an annoying
no flex section or anyway for the system to flex
crappy looking tip
hangers that break off and have the exhasut fall off
on could go on and on, but it's pointless



At least our system
fits well and doesn't bang
includes clamps and is 3 pieces
looks nice from the rear'
includes SS flex section
doesn't burn the rear bumper black




This is really stupid. You think your parts are better and I think our parts are better. It's pretty simple actually. I wasn't saying the pic of the intake on the first page was better. That was a freak thing that wasn't finished and should never have been shipped. We are fixing that asap and it will never happen again.

Ill have to say that at least wojo can't say Buschur is so much more professional then us. Of he obviously never saw the convo between Buschur and Ken at IRC.

As for copying, RNR's products are different then yours. Of course there similair in that its frankly impossible to desig a dramatic new exhaust, but he does offer the O2 eliminators, use's different bends, different section setup, different muffler and tip, etc....and he hasn't waited to see your turbo kit to copy has he?

I think he's capable of his own fabrication.

Buschur, your exhaust is nice! i admit i helped my friend install it on his car, which was a pain in the ass, fitment was hard at first we did what everyone recomeneded which was not to tighten down everything till we got fitment right.... so we take of in it after we thing we installed it right... as we back up we can hear the cat vibrating agaiunst the diff. so we adjust that then the muffler is touching the bumper... arg it must have taken us like a good 4 hours and we are not noob's with a wrench. maybe a lift stand could have helped us install it correctly faster but , ramps was only route we had. the power the exhaust makes is very nice, it is very loud even with high flow cat but hey i like loud and throaty, we did end up getting it to fit alright in the end, it also took us a good 10 min to get the ups stickers off the piping which came with no packaging and bang out the ends so they could slip into each section. thats my .02 i didnt install the RNR catback so i dunt know about fitment etc etc. but i do know the hks cannister looks awsome !!! but to each his own

Ryan may have messed up but at least he works his ass off to fix the problem.

He even waste time posting on here...

Ken bacon is a Crook and owes more people money for never shipped 1500 orders then I can count after IRC folded. Yet buschur is still in business has great customer service and product support. Funny how that works huh?

I don't own any RNR products But I do know that in the DSM community RNR's stuff sucks. Stock officer you also posted that you don't work for RNR? hmmmm I heard differently from the admin of your local DSM board.

I have and have had many Buschur products on my dsm. David's stuff is serious business with a show quality finish on top of that. The guy simply polishes everything, and uses the best performing materials available.I don't know RNR however I do know that there is a RnR horror story posted on many dsm boards a couple times a week.

Drama between these two AWESOME companies is not needed.
 

For the record RnR products look as good as Buschar. Both companies make a good turboback and DRAMA BETWEEN THEM IS unnecessary!

I do not have BRAND LOYALTY.

I simply buy the part that fullfills my quality standards from whoever has it.
It's LOGIC nothing personal.

Since I do not have brand loyalty I reccomend all small vendors to not demand BRAND NAME prices for parts that I can get made at the local muffler shop. The whole point for shoping at a NON-BRAND place like Buschar or RnR is to get an AWESOME product that is way cheaper as the hyped import stuff yet just as good!!!! This is why I choose RnR over Buschar. RnR priced the turboback accordingly.

The RnR is not as fancy as a Brand name but who the hell cares if you got chrome on your downpipe nobody is gonna look!!! 3 inch is 3 inch with similar bends and cat. The power gain and weight is so similar that you will not notice the difference between Buschar and RnR.
All measurements and parts being equal, most of the turboback systems are similar. So for something so simple it comes down to price and material quality.

Second I wanted the Buschar exhast first because it is the lightest system in 3 inch form but they refused to make me a deal. Everybody wants something cheap. I refuse to buy something that is not brand name for an HKS price. I might as well buy the HKS.

Since they would not make me a deal and RnR is only 3 lbs. heavier I decided to give RnR a shot since he was friendly about making a deal.

I was able to see the parts in person so I did not get shafted.

I am well read and aware of how great all of the exhast companies are.

RnR stuff is good stuff. Or Ryan gave me a super kit.

I have pictures to prove that it is good quality.

The welds are very clean.

The turboback has very few bends. A few in the downpipe, and muffler section.

From the cat to the start of the muffler is a straight pipe.

I am not being paid to say this crap and had a problem with Ryan earlier this week!!!! He fixed it ASAP to the point that I am very happy with my purchase. How many companies will give you real down to earth personal tech support. He has admitted his mistakes and ate the penalty.

I love Buschar products but Buschar looks REALLY bad for attacking RnR. Buschar really had no business in this. This is between RnR and their customers. I thought Buschar was a professional company. I am getting the feeling they are no different that most local tuners yet demand brand name status welding parts out of a shop. Seeing that Buschar even has time to post in a thread that does not INVOLVE HIM says a lot. I would like to buy products from both RnR and buschar why are you forcing us to take sides. This is like BIG and 2pac. You guys should help each other! Drama between these two AWESOME companies is not needed.

I am a real evo owner in real life with a passion for not just cars but performace. I regulary attend www.SoCalEvo.net meets. I am not a rice noob, I have modded, mortor swap experience with honda's, 1 skyline motor, Mustangs, Chevy V8 chevelle/el camino/camaro/corvette, Rx-7, dodge datona turbo, 4g63 swap in a mirage, and a lot more.



CLIFF NOTES:
RnR and Buschar are both excellent products.
You will not notice the difference when driving. That goes for brand names and generic ones.
I do not have BRAND LOYALTY.
I simply buy the part that fullfills my quality standards from whoever has it at the best price.
Both generic parts like RnR and Buschar should never demand a brand name price for products that can be generically welded by any muffler shop. This is why I choose RnR over Buschar. RnR priced the turboback accordingly.
It's LOGIC nothing personal.
I love Buschar products but Buschar looks REALLY bad for attacking RnR. Buschar really had no business in this. This is between RnR and their customers. I thought Buschar was a professional company.
Seeing that Buschar even has time to post in a thread that does not INVOLVE HIM says a lot. I would like to buy products from both RnR and buschar why are you forcing us to take sides. Drama between these two AWESOME companies is not needed.

http://www.CarPhoto.net

As for Ken being a crook or not...that is complately aside from the convo Im refering too that happened when IRC started. Wheter Ken was a good guy, bad guy, or the anti-christ has no bearing on the conversation Im refering too.

As for me working for RnR, thats not exactly the case. I have on occasion worked on Ryan personal cars, and even a customer car if he's strapped...Perhaps 30 hours in total over the history of RnR's existence. I have absolutely nothing to do with fabrication, customer service, or the buisness itself, other then that I can show up, swap a turbo or cams and whatnot...and leave.

IF I think Ryan is being a dick, I have absolutely no problem telling him so, here, publicly. Go into any of these RnR threads and see if I ever defended him unless I had direct personal knowledge about the person. I do not simply take RnR's side and have no incentive to do so.

I know exactly who Buschur is, and exactly what he's accomplished. if you want to go into the intake thread, you will note that I recomended Buschurs intake, flat out, never recomended RnR. That doesn't mean Buschur can sit out and post ******* things and I won't call him on it. Ill call anyone on it. Ill call you on it too.

well if you dont think RnR is good quality you can always check out the new pics of my car, https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1

um that looks like one of the cleanest set ups ive seen so far and if not show me cleaner!!! its just so... so... beautiful!!

I didn't post anything until I was e-mailed directly by bpclemonds and was told about RNR taking the picture from our website and putting it on theirs. I then came here and saw someone else posted that the picture of our mas pipe was used on RNR site. THIS then makes this all MY business and that is why I came here and posted about it. You can also go back and look at the release dates of "their" parts and ours and find an awfully odd resemblence in the design and pricing. It's quite easy to research for yourselves.

My point is I didn't just come on here and butt in, I was contacted by one of RNR's customers with complaints about RNR. I then came and looked into what I was told.

Don't point fingers at me as provoking this one, look at the facts.

As far as how our exhaust fits you can also go and look at the guys that have had troubles and how when they finally fitted it correctly it clears. Comparing the few posts of problems to how it actually fits is silly until you can compare how many we have sold. Of the few guys that have problems and then actually take the time to make them fit the way they were designed is also silly. We have shipped over 400 full EVO systems out of here to date, this is since March.

Also, as a side point, RNR claims to be the ultimate tuner in the DSM world and say they have been doing this for 10 years. This could be, but of the 9 guys that work here we have never heard of them until they started making these claims in the EVO world.

I know they haven't built anything faster than we have, that's a fact.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

First off we never claimed to be ultimate tuner. So that is a lie. We have been doing this for 4+years. We are very good with these cars and know what we are doing with them. We have had very good results with our cars that we build.




We do claim to have some of the best parts in the country. We also have never copied anyone products. You must really think your stuff is so great that someone would copy something that is already so simple to make. You act like it is rocket science to design an exhaust, FMIC, Turbo Kit, etc.



We never copied you and would never want to. Our stuff is better designed then you could imagine. We build stuff in house. We don't have other people do the work for us like bending, polishing, etc.




The simple fact is that many many people have had problems with your exhaust. It's really not that big of a deal because everyone company through these things. I was just pointing out that you guys aren't perfect either.




This discussion is over and I will not discuss it any futher.

The results with my new system today were awesome. Ryan's evo is also really fast too. His quality is definitely top notch.

I accidently posted my comments on me612's s/n, but I clarify which post it is.

Oh I forgot to say that he welds completely around there flanges now, so there is absolutely no leaks!!! Really nice welds too!!!




You can read about it here!!!