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Originally Posted by kyoo
(Post 11950630)
ah i see. in any case, yea stiffer helper springs to absorb more of the weight compression leading to a lower car?
if its more than 225 lbs helper spring then you effectively have 'progressive springs'... probably used for serious aero and not for you or me
Originally Posted by kyoo
(Post 11950630)
if the helper compresses without any force it's not going to do anything for the height and just be a spacer on the strut mount?
Originally Posted by kyoo
(Post 11950630)
it's definitely not just from the additional space given by a helper i dont think, since i already asked the question about a longer spring. the only way a minimal helper would provide more droop is if it extended the strut by the height of the helper, but that's going to just raise the car if the helper basically doesn't do anything.
you change the *starting point* by changing spring perch or spring length, then it changes the droop |
Originally Posted by kyoo
(Post 11950633)
thanks for the detailed. essentially, 2 is where i'm at and 1 is what i'm considering doing to add more. but for now, im going to leave it at 2. is the idea then to get the inner up as quickly as possible? because the rear uprights will certainly do that.
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Originally Posted by ViciousLSD
(Post 11950634)
NO. stiffer helper may mean quieter driving on a bumper concrete highway.
if its more than 225 lbs helper spring then you effectively have 'progressive springs'... probably used for serious aero and not for you or me YES NO. droop is *starting point* of the shock (while standing) to full travel (car lifted) you change the *starting point* by changing spring perch or spring length, then it changes the droop
Originally Posted by Dallas J
(Post 11950635)
IMO, Yes. I use the bar as a trim tool to effect how soon the wheel lifts or late the wheel drops. I also run around -3.25 deg of rear camber. Especially with the rear uprights the rear loves more camber. -4.0 front, -3.25 rear.
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Let me caveat this all with, there are other ways to skin this cat. Ive tried all but high front/low rear rates. Nothing has been as good for me or as fast, especially in tight stuff.
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Originally Posted by kyoo
(Post 11950636)
how did you achieve that level of rear camber?
To get more at a higher ride height you'd need an adjustable lower arm. Right now the Megan or Racefab is the only ones Id use, especially with my uprights. |
Originally Posted by Dallas J
(Post 11950638)
Max camber on the lower control arm, then more low.
To get more at a higher ride height you'd need an adjustable lower arm. Right now the Megan or Racefab is the only ones Id use, especially with my uprights. |
Originally Posted by Dallas J
(Post 11950635)
-4.0 front, -3.25 rear.
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Originally Posted by ayoustin
(Post 11950644)
You should preface this that you're on very wide slicks and (I'm guessing) most often on concrete. Street tires and asphalt will not require as much camber.
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Originally Posted by kyoo
(Post 11950636)
hmm ok. so weak-ass helper it is? swift has a 0.1kgm spring?
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Originally Posted by Dallas J
(Post 11950651)
The ER endurance Evo with IIRC 220 tw tires running on asphalt tracks also run this much. They have hundreds of hours on track now and just based on tire wear they also ended up where I found in AX was needed.
FWIW none of the regular-ish track evos I've worked with have had a need for more than -2.5° in the rear. |
They are running moderate rates. Nothing crazy but not soft either. One other component, a stock upright evo has a higher camber gain in the rear but also a higher rate of change of camber gain (camber acceleration?). With the SSB rear uprights its reset closer to OEM and more linear gain which is the component that makes the rear more predictable. But because of that it tends to need more camber than a stock upright car.
For example, Stock evo rear lowered 1.5" will be in the 1.0-1.1 (off the top of my head) deg/inch and with my uprights goes back to 0.6-0.7 deg/in and a stock ride height evo is 0.5 deg/in. EDIT: Just to add, this all comes back to making the rear do more work. I put as much load into the outside rear tire as I can which means its getting more roll also. Just make sure rear tires are warm before you go too ham on track ;) |
Some tighter/faster (track) corners are banked, which might be a factor
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Originally Posted by Dallas J
(Post 11950632)
Why does it matter if it low? Once the wheel droops past the springs full extension nothing is pushing the tire down but it doesnt matter cause the bar is keeping the tire up. You can have more travel if you want, but its not going to effects much of anything. Using an assist/tender spring "can" soften the landing when tire sets down but it has a negative effect of reducing total roll rate at that intermediate zone which is not good.
It could help very marginally for daily driving. If you're going over uneven surfaces like a driveway entrance and you find yourself lifting a tire, some extra droop travel could reduce the thunk when that tire hits the ground again. But that's about it. Unless you're jumping the car, in which case you're going to need a lot more droop travel. :D |
one way to find out is to put a 4x4 block of wood under one rear tire, & see how much the other side droops. I'm on 'soft setting' only on the rear sway bar and I could try it later
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Dallas
Is ER running your suspension all around? When you say moderately stiff, do you mean 12kg front 14kg rear, or substantially more spring rate? |
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