Originally Posted by BkzProblem (Post 11333626)

Well since you didn't name shops, I don't know who you've dealt with. E-Spec does good work. He's located in long island.

Originally Posted by TommiM (Post 11332692)

unfortunately this type of stuff seems to be more and more common lately. There arent many good shops or tuners left. A large majority of tuners arent able to diagnose anything they cant manipulate with their laptop. They lack basic diagnostic skills and will just start recommending replacing components.

Ive seen tuners play around for hours on the laptop trying to adjust this or that wondering why its not fixing it.... Well maybe because if you have a malfunctioning component no amount of ecu tweaking will make it operate correctly.

Im not saying tuners need to be master techs, but basic understanding of the combustion engine should be required. I wont even go into detail with some of the hackery Ive seen at some the shops I been to. Its sad and frustrating and is one reason I do all my own work.

/rant.:beer:

Originally Posted by tscompusa (Post 11334283)

Sorry to read about your misfortune, but i think you should mention the shop name so others don't make the same mistake as you.

I take cars from all over. I just picked one up from CT and im in PA. If it's still on stock ecu and is on speed density be careful who you choose. Most places cant figure these cars out with stock ecu & SD & the car will run like crap no matter how reputable the shop name is.

What I would do, is look for someone closest to you as possible, and if their reputation is good then go to them.

And yes a lot of people sand bag tunes these days. A good solid tune takes 3-4 hours usually minimal to touch all aspects on the vehicle both power & drive ability & starting and all that stuff.

Originally Posted by razorlab (Post 11334304)

Reason #19238129831297 I'm pretty much out of the Evo game. Bit of a bummer, actually.

Originally Posted by razorlab (Post 11334304)

Reason #19238129831297 I'm pretty much out of the Evo game. Bit of a bummer, actually.

Originally Posted by JuniorAWD (Post 11334894)

This sounds a lot like a car that was on Tachs dyno last week, and a few weeks before hand.

Just want to touch on the base map thing.. Its called a BASEMAP for a reason, its to get you driving the car to break it in for a few 100 miles.. Not a YEAR and then come in for a tune

If its the same Evo I am thinking of, plugs, coils, o2 sensor, NEW INJECTORS ( not bigger ) along with a few other small things were recommended to the customer/customers friend.

Why?

The car has really old parts on it. It has a Buschur cast manifold 30r from 2004 along with injectors from the same time when they were sold to customer. The car randomly misfires like it has a bad injector and I did not even want to tune it from the start. I left the car at 28psi, and I recommended an EBC so you wont experience boost spikes in colder weather, OR PLAY WITH THE BOOST CONTROLLER... Like most do

I have your data logs as well from the dyno, showing +/- 7-8 fuel trims when the car is actually working properly while cruising. I cant control faulty/out dated hardware, I wont even tune that **** anymore. The only reason you made it on the dyno was because you had already paid.... A YEAR AGO AND SHOW UP LAST WEEK FOR THE TUNE


I know its easy to blame someone else in these instances. You have no one to blame but yourself in this case. Oh and as for knock counts, yea you may pick some of those up with your noisy race motor and triple disk just like I told your buddy.

Jr

Originally Posted by r3dtr1ckz (Post 11335312)

Actually lucky told me 1000 miles, not just a couple hundred, which was exactly what was done before the car came back. Whether it took me a month or 5 years to hit 1000 miles is irrelevant. The car had exactly 1007 miles on the motor prior to bringing it in. The base map should still have some drive ability, and since when is it ok for a base map to be created without even being in the customers car? The lag was so brutal down low it required me to always over rev the car just to get it going, which constantly put pressure on my triple disc.


I cant comment on miles or time told since I was not present, I can only say that usually 1yr to come back for a tune is a little extreme.
I email 2-3 basemaps a day all across the WORLD.. Its kinda hard to be in cars 3-4k miles away. Tuners remote tune cars all day without ever seeing the actual cars.
The lag again, is from the ****ty response on those dinosaur injectors.

Judging by your response im assuming maybe you were paid a year ago so thats what led to such a lack of interest in tuning my car? Also stop blaming the injectors for the miss fire, i already fixed it by re gapping the plugs which should of happened day 1 of tuning. Instead i was forced to buy brand new coils from it being diagnosed incorrectly.


Incorrect, I used to make maps for Tach without being paid for it on the spot. Your car was one of the reasons I now require full payment up front.. Especially open source tunes.
The plug gap is your responsibility unfortunately. More 3rd party info, but I asked abotu plug gap and how old they were and was told it was "new" and "gapped" so that was taken off the table. I can only do so much with the data I am fed. Maybe you should have brought your own car in for the tune so I didnt have to wait for a text responce via a 3rd party every time I had a question.
Your injectors still suck :D They are old and out dated.. Also based on logs, your ignition is not the reason a cylinder would stop working appropriately... It sucks to say, but you probably wont realize this until you melt a piston because your injector is clogged/failing.

I already spoke with tach regarding this situation and your 30-40minute tuning sessions, they asked me to bring you the car again but I refused, so please don't act like you tuning my car again was ever an option. Theres no doubt in my mind that you are capable of being a great tuner, but it seems to me at this point in time you're just rushing the tuning process which is leading to these poor results. I wish you luck in the future and just hope you change your bad habbits.

I never said it was an option, and honestly if the car showed up again I would have Tach either fix the problems or find someone else to tune it. I dont like threads like this, and being selective of what cars get tuned avoid them. Kinda the same reason people say Ivey "wont tune dsm/evos anymore" He will, he just doesn't want cars that are headaches and unfortunately the older these cars get, the more headaches people tend to bring in for tunes. I turn away plenty of tunes just to aviod " poor results" like this car.

I also want to touch on the length of time needed to tune a car. Quantity does not equal quality... Just because someone takes 2-3 hours to tune your car doesnt mean you are getting a better tune then the guy who took 1hr. In most cases the 1hr tune probably works better then the 2-3hour "practice/testing" session you are getting. Im not practicing or learning how to tune on your car. The car is given a base map, built off the 100s of examples of that setup. Then its tweaked from there. If someone is "starting from scratch" on your car, then they just don't have a basemap from having tuned a similar setup to start with. I can give you an example of forum member 4g63evoeight on here from this past buschur shootout. I took his car and in 10 minutes gave him his best ET and MPH ever by simply using my extensive library of maps. No dyno or even street pulls, literally setup his AEM( way more in depth then a stock ecu), because his old tuner/tune SUCKED( even after hours of dyno and street tuning ) and the car magically picked up mph/et which would obviously equate to more power. He even mentioned how much better it drove right off the bat. So again just because someone takes XYZ time doesnt mean they are doing you a grand service, just might mean they are learning on your car.

Originally Posted by JuniorAWD (Post 11335615)

( OP )Actually lucky told me 1000 miles, not just a couple hundred, which was exactly what was done before the car came back. Whether it took me a month or 5 years to hit 1000 miles is irrelevant. The car had exactly 1007 miles on the motor prior to bringing it in. The base map should still have some drive ability, and since when is it ok for a base map to be created without even being in the customers car? The lag was so brutal down low it required me to always over rev the car just to get it going, which constantly put pressure on my triple disc.


( JR )I cant comment on miles or time told since I was not present, I can only say that usually 1yr to come back for a tune is a little extreme.
I email 2-3 basemaps a day all across the WORLD.. Its kinda hard to be in cars 3-4k miles away. Tuners remote tune cars all day without ever seeing the actual cars.
The lag again, is from the ****ty response on those dinosaur injectors.


Im currently dealing with a few businesses this year, i told lucky that after the car was built i had no idea when id be able to have time to put 1000 miles on the car. Also i literally just erased your map started fresh and was able to to fix the cold start, also when the car initially takes off and falls on its face ( being way too lean ) is also fixed. This is from someone who is very new to tuning.

( OP )Judging by your response im assuming maybe you were paid a year ago so thats what led to such a lack of interest in tuning my car? Also stop blaming the injectors for the miss fire, i already fixed it by re gapping the plugs which should of happened day 1 of tuning. Instead i was forced to buy brand new coils from it being diagnosed incorrectly.


(JR ) Incorrect, I used to make maps for Tach without being paid for it on the spot. Your car was one of the reasons I now require full payment up front.. Especially open source tunes.
The plug gap is your responsibility unfortunately. More 3rd party info, but I asked abotu plug gap and how old they were and was told it was "new" and "gapped" so that was taken off the table. I can only do so much with the data I am fed. Maybe you should have brought your own car in for the tune so I didnt have to wait for a text responce via a 3rd party every time I had a question.
Your injectors still suck They are old and out dated.. Also based on logs, your ignition is not the reason a cylinder would stop working appropriately... It sucks to say, but you probably wont realize this until you melt a piston because your injector is clogged/failing.

Tach rebuilt that whole motor how would the plugs gap be my responsibility? Your tech pulled out the plug the day it was on the dyno and said they were perfect without checking the gap and told me to get coils. Yes the injectors aren't the greatest, but why would i change them this very second when I'm getting ready to do my 6466 setup next month? All i wanted was a little drivability in the car until then.

( OP )I already spoke with tach regarding this situation and your 30-40minute tuning sessions, they asked me to bring you the car again but I refused, so please don't act like you tuning my car again was ever an option. Theres no doubt in my mind that you are capable of being a great tuner, but it seems to me at this point in time you're just rushing the tuning process which is leading to these poor results. I wish you luck in the future and just hope you change your bad habbits.

( JR )I never said it was an option, and honestly if the car showed up again I would have Tach either fix the problems or find someone else to tune it. I dont like threads like this, and being selective of what cars get tuned avoid them. Kinda the same reason people say Ivey "wont tune dsm/evos anymore" He will, he just doesn't want cars that are headaches and unfortunately the older these cars get, the more headaches people tend to bring in for tunes. I turn away plenty of tunes just to aviod " poor results" like this car.

I also want to touch on the length of time needed to tune a car. Quantity does not equal quality... Just because someone takes 2-3 hours to tune your car doesnt mean you are getting a better tune then the guy who took 1hr. In most cases the 1hr tune probably works better then the 2-3hour "practice/testing" session you are getting. Im not practicing or learning how to tune on your car. The car is given a base map, built off the 100s of examples of that setup. Then its tweaked from there. If someone is "starting from scratch" on your car, then they just don't have a basemap from having tuned a similar setup to start with. I can give you an example of forum member 4g63evoeight on here from this past buschur shootout. I took his car and in 10 minutes gave him his best ET and MPH ever by simply using my extensive library of maps. No dyno or even street pulls, literally setup his AEM( way more in depth then a stock ecu), because his old tuner/tune SUCKED( even after hours of dyno and street tuning ) and the car magically picked up mph/et which would obviously equate to more power. He even mentioned how much better it drove right off the bat. So again just because someone takes XYZ time doesnt mean they are doing you a grand service, just might mean they are learning on your car.


Lets go through the list for a second, my car logged 30-31psi consistently only hours after you tuned it and this was after you turned the mbc down a full turn!, this car is on pump gas, thats just setting me up for disaster so you could probably later on blame my injectors. Cold start was never setup, and you were told both tuning days about it ( its fixed now because of my new map ). The car falls on its face during initial take off, goes really lean in the 17-18afr range. This was also eliminated after the new map i uploaded. Everyone on this thread agrees 30-40minute tunes is ridiculous and you can't even seem to admit that. Also you show up to a tuning session and then later claim your battery is dead and you don't have a charger? Your only job when showing up is to tune cars, why isn't your battery charged? why wouldn't you have a charger? Customers end up waiting hours for your 30minute tune. Everything from your responses on this forum, to how you tune cars, and how you present yourself just shows me a lack of professionalism and the lack of caring. Your building maps off other similar maps is the perfect example of my argument. You don't see setups like mine anymore, so obviously mine was going to require more work then the average familiar setup you see every day. Also whats even funnier is when you first got in the car you said "This cars a terd, who tuned this thing?" and were told you did lol, i thought that was funny. Good luck in the future though {thumbup}

Jr