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-   -   Indepth study of WAI injection systems (https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/water-methanol-injection-nitrous-oxide/292953-indepth-study-wai-injection-systems.html)

Richard L Sep 5, 2007 03:46 PM

seeing is believing...
 
Video is ready to be viewed: Click here
(ONLY works with Microsoft IE)

Download video: Click here

cpoevo Sep 5, 2007 04:07 PM

Links dont work.

Richard L Sep 5, 2007 04:10 PM

please try again

dubbleugly01 Sep 5, 2007 04:32 PM


Originally Posted by Whoosh (Post 4712475)
Finally, Mr. dubbleugly01, your definition of pressure drop is spot on. Your error is in thinking that the pressure downstream of the valve will not try to equalize once the valve is opened.

No, this is where we agree to disagree. The pressure will not equalize unless the check valve leaks like a sieve and does not function as designed.

I keep tellin ya, it's in the spring!!!!! That dang spring is causin pressure drop :lol: I know you can't comprehend that, it's ok, you believe what you believe, I believe what I know.

dubbleugly01 Sep 5, 2007 04:48 PM


Originally Posted by Richard L (Post 4714380)
Video is ready to be viewed: Click here
(ONLY works with Microsoft IE)

Download video: Click here

now that's irrefutable. :mitsu:

Richard L Sep 6, 2007 12:42 AM

dubbleugly01,

I am glad this is over, would like hear Mr Whoosh's view on the result of the test.

Flow drop by a check valve: irrefutable!
Pressure drop by a check valve: irrefutable!

C6C6CH3vo Sep 6, 2007 04:33 AM

Glad I have no check valves

Originally Posted by Richard L (Post 4713578)
I may need your help on this if possible, I believe you have a great logging device. Can it take external 0-5V signal?

Although I have never used the channel yet, yes you can set it up to take other external sources

honki24 Sep 6, 2007 05:40 AM

Not sure the video is entirely precise. Question: since the first test w/o cv has no way of stoping the line from emptying out in the end, how is this variable taken into account? From the end results I'm seeing a ~ 23% decrease in flow by adding 1 cv, and ~ 53% decrease by adding 2. This is hard to believe. The test needs to ensure that when the time is up the water is not allowed to drain from the tube into the beaker when there is no cv, b/c the cv will stop this flow when it is in place. While that may add to some skew, it is still undeniable that there is some drop in flow. ...but ~ 25% per cv?!? a bit hard to believe. lol sorry, I'm no fluid dynamicist either... just a lowly ME.

edit: I'd also really like the pressure drop test to be conducted with water. While regulation may not be as easy... it can't be much harder to just hook up pressure transducers/gauges before and after a cv with a real WI nozzle acting as the "adjustable flow regualator". Air is much more compressible than water and acts very differently. There was never a question of whether there is a dP across the cv, but in order to quantify it and rule out spring pressure, you have to actually use the medium that we are interested in.

edit: sorry for one last question, but what was the cracking pressure for the cv(s) used in the video test? Mine is 40psi, and I would like to know similar it is. Thanks.

Whoosh Sep 6, 2007 05:51 AM

The proper thing to do here is concede. Your test was well done and irrefutable. Please understand that at no time did I not state that there would be pressure drop and loss of flow across the valve. My error is in the psi drop caused by the spring across the valve.

dubbleugly01 please forgive my doubting your expertise.

Upon further pressing my Sr. Process Engineer, she stated that in practice, the pressure drops are added up across the entire system. In other words, if the spray nozzle will see 28psi in the I/C pipe, the nozzle needs 30psi to properly atomize, there are 5psi in line and fitting losses and the spring has a 8psi value...then the total system would require 71psi to see 30 psi downstream of the spray nozzle. She further stated that that will be a conservative, but safe, method to establish minimum pressure. "Better to error on the safe side she said". I thanked her and then later shot her for leading me astray.

Originally Posted by Richard L (Post 4716018)
dubbleugly01,

I am glad this is over, would like hear Mr Whoosh's view on the result of the test.

Flow drop by a check valve: irrefutable!
Pressure drop by a check valve: irrefutable!


Richard L Sep 7, 2007 12:39 PM

Whoosh, you are a gentleman.

I was in two minds about this, the urge to set up a test was so compelling to say the least!

I will continue on uttering the topic - please keep me honest - I was lucky this time.

Richard L Sep 7, 2007 12:43 PM


Originally Posted by honki24 (Post 4716274)
.
.
edit: sorry for one last question, but what was the cracking pressure for the cv(s) used in the video test? Mine is 40psi, and I would like to know similar it is. Thanks.

25psi, 25psi (flow test)

honki24 Sep 7, 2007 12:48 PM

cool, thanks.

How about thems other questions? :thumbup:

Richard L Sep 7, 2007 01:48 PM

Dribble after the system after powr off..

1. The no-CV video is timed for 1 minute. You can just catch a glimpse of scale reading at the moment the blue light bar turns off. Any dribble after that moment is added to the digital scale. I could not see that much increase in reading after the power off. (by the way, Abner did the video, I just read a bit further into the set up - he can confirm).

2. I will set it up with water one day, at present I just can't afford the time at present. 40psi check valve is very high, any reason?

Zeus Sep 7, 2007 02:36 PM

Richard,

Patently waiting to hear about:

6) Direct port


:)

honki24 Sep 10, 2007 07:31 AM


Originally Posted by Richard L (Post 4721663)
40psi check valve is very high, any reason?

I picked it up from coolingmist when I built my first itteration of my WI kit. I've since switched to solenoids, but left the checkvalve in line. I am going to remove it when I get my car running again due to the testing found here. Good stuff. No idea each CV was affecting flow by nearly ~25%


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