doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

Update, February 2, 2014:

Car is in the shop and we basically know what needs to be done...



But, it's not the best best news. I haven't decided to give up and am still making arrangements to move forward... but it's nowhere close to as easy as past users like Diavlo were making this out to be.

Diavlo's vehicle was allegedly stolen before he could dive into the swap first-hand. It would have been interesting to see what approach he would have taken. Perhaps he might have ditched the idea all-together.

The issue with this swap comes down to the following two main problems we've identified:

1. The fuel system is a lot different and we have that additional function of the sender unit delivering fuel from one side of the tank to the other. This needs to tie into the harness and could be ECU controlled. Therefore, this might require the Outlander ECU. But this is a fairly basic problem to overcome.
2. Now the biggest problem i'll get into ... that rear cross member.

As it turns out... the Outlander's rear diff, suspension components and just about everything else on that back-end is supported by this elaborate cross-member:



Now notice how the bolt holes (8 of them) to mount this bastard are at different heights. That's just the start of it...

Now look at my car:



See that welded "cross-member" that comes down for the suspension? All needs to go. It's in the way. There's no way we are going to be able to realistically create some 'mickey mouse' bracket of our own for that rear differential. If we are going to do this, we need to use the cross-member system pictured above. It's complex, it's beautiful, and it has a **** load of rubber and forged metal where needed to make sure it can take a beating without vibrating the car to bits.

So how is that going to be mounted?

Certainly not into the tinfoil floor in my car now. One bump and that thing is coming off.

The Outlander floor above the cross-member has all the necessary contours, bolt holes and reinforcement to support the system. It actually drops down and accommodates how those bolt holes are of different heights. The floor is structurally designed to support this system and it has up to 4 (and in some areas 8) times the thickness of the FWD Lancer floor above where this needs to go.

So what can we do?

Source the rear Outlander floor (separate, individual pieces, unwelded), cut out the area of my Lancer floor that is in the way, then weld that new floor in. Now we have a way of properly mounting that rear cross-member and granted we weld that floor in with our own added supports, it should be strong enough.



Now this is no piece of cake and the risk is, if we cut out that rear part of my car, there's really no going back if down the road we realize something else is wrong - like if we misjudge the placement even slightly such that the the camber is out, and the car handles for ****... or if we find we simply can't weld in that new floor without it being really sketchy and not strong enough.

This is also no cheap en-devour. I'm on the hunt for a good, mobile welder and fabricator who can work with us in the shop at our location. Hopefully we can work well and keep the costs down...

This is no guarantee. I'll still take into account opinions and considerations of users here before I commit to moving forward 100%.

If i pull this off though, it'd be pretty bad ***.

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

yes...the 1000 islands are beautiful, I've heard She dwarfs the lancer...lol



I told you!




wow. that is crazy...I mean, all that aside, what about the trailing arms, and shock mount locations and angles?

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

The trailing arms look virtually identical. The shock mount locations are again very, very close. The angles, however - that one is tough to estimate... we could be on our way to building a very poor handling vehicle unless our measurements are spot on. Before we even think about ripping out that floor, we'll do some more measuring. We'll use a plum line from the top hats of the struts as a reference on each side and once we offer up the cross-member, we'll tack weld it and see if we can rest the vehicle on its wheels and get an idea of how it will sit.

some fairly serious surgery but i think we can do it

EDIT: that boat is nuts lol - and damn you guys have a lot of snow - we have virtually none on the west coast

bakuro117

iTrader: (5)

Hey man I was just checking in on your AWD project. Seen the issue your having with mounting the rear end. And i remembered seeing THIS PAGE a while back. Figured it might give you some helpful visuals and Ideas.

Good luck! Cant wait to see more!

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

Thanks man. I have seen this project before; incredibly well documented and proof that there are people far crazier than me lol. Anything can be done granted you are motivated enough.

Basically, to update on the progress; I've had a few local welders turn down the project due to liability issues or a general lack of confidence in the project (granted the majority of these guys are not exactly automotive welders...). Nobody wants to take the risk of effectively ruining my car, or going the full 9 yards then hearing how the subframe detached from the body at 110km/hr

On the flip side, however, I've managed to find a guy who specializes in all types of engine swaps, drag cars and rally vehicles whose shop is a few towns over from mine. He seems very capable. Apparently he custom mounted a rear diff from a 240SX onto a Subaru Legacy, and among other interesting projects, this pegs him as the guy I need to see. I've made arrangements to get my vehicle towed out there next week.

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

looks like we might have found a welder/fabricator who can commit to helping us. only trouble is the guy is too busy until about 1-2 months. will keep everyone up to date as things unfold. this is a go.

did a bit of photo correction on this photo. if this awd swap ever gets finished i'd like to take some good photos of the car
Attachment 332180

Archlegan

iTrader: (4)

How does the Outlander floor + crossmember differ from the EVO 8? In theory, wouldn't the floor from an EVO be easier to rig up in the Lancer than an Outlander?

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

I wish I knew. With where I live the Outlander is a popular vehicle and in Canada no EVOs were even sold here prior to 2007/08 so without question I'd have to source the parts from the US and it'd an expensive process. If this weren't the case and access to an EVO was readily available, maybe going that route would have made more sense...but where the floor may have been easier to mount, I'm certain we'd have run into other issues with parts not fitting.

The Outlander shares the same 4G69 as what's in my Lancer now, so the swap other than this cross-member on the back is easy. The EVO however is a different ball game and where you'd have an easier time working with one aspect of the swap, you might run into several others due to it being a different engine/transmission.

Archlegan

iTrader: (4)

Well I know that the 4G63 tranny will bolt up to the 4G64 block, maybe it would bolt up to the 69 as well? And I was only wondering about the EVO floor since the bodies of the EVO and Lancer are so similar, aside from the rear end.

You may have seen this build already
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=453789
But I put it up here just in case. May give you an example of how the floorpan swap can be handled.

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

yes im sure the 4G63 transmission will bolt up to the 4G69 block - mitsuorder did his EVO 8 4G69 build and while i don't know if any custom work was required, his car is running the EVO transmission on the 4G69... but for me, it still falls back to the issue of sourcing the 4G63 parts which is expensive with where i live. The Outlander was sourced cheap and local. In any case, my intention down the road is to have the tranny and t-case built by TRE so they can take a beating. I've decided i will cut my losses, continue with the 4G69 AWD swap, then build it up. Buying the 4G63 parts i need for AWD would be twice as expensive as what ive paid so far, so i feel the difference can go toward a TRE rebuild. They might even be able to use a few EVO gears in there??

As for the rear floor, i think we will be only cutting out a section of the floor; at least this is the plan at the moment versus swapping out an entire floor section. My swap will not be near as substantial as this GTI swap here lol, but damn this is some nice work -- my first time seeing this build. This is seriously one of the most impressive builds i have ever seen and proves that basically anything can be done.

Archlegan

iTrader: (4)

Does Diavlo come on these forums anymore? It would be nice if he had any extra knowledge to throw out here.

I'm personally anxious to see the result of your AWD swap. Props for doing this, and definitely keep us updated! If I find any helpful information, I'll be sure to post it up here

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

I don't think he does no. Last sign in Aug 30, 2008 06:12 AM. I've read his AWD swap thread. I'm fairly certain he wouldn't have reached the point of having to decide how best to weld up the rear subframe, because if he had he wouldn't have been continually saying how easy and hassle-free the swap was going to be lol (orelse he just never decided to share with the community at this time his findings). I don't know if he had even officially started the AWD swap before his car was stolen, my assumption is he hadn't.

Thank you for the support

JaMRxHanzoxOZ

i picked up this post thinking it was old as hell. Turns out it was just updated! My motor is getting tired and Im thinking of doing the 2.4 mivec swap, do you recommend it?? I have a 5 speed and im not too interested in the AWD swap haha. All in all, did you do well with the motor swap? You completely tore out the old bay, I remember seeing a post where the stock tranny can still be used. Is this correct? I will read through more of this thread later on when i have more time and money and less snow... lmao.

secondly, DOPE *** LANCER BRO!

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

hey man thank you for the comments.

I do recommend the 5spd MIVEC swap - it's going to be a noticeable improvement in power and torque over the 4G94 and there are many more options available to you working with this block. The downside is that the swap does require replacing most components in that engine bay although luckily they are all easy to source used.

I do not know if the 4G94 transmission will fit the 4G69 - we never bothered to check because my 4G94 was automatic and we were swapping to 5spd so I just sourced the 4G69 transmission. If it does fit, though, that will save you a bit of money as using the 4G69 tranny will also mean needing to source the left and right axleshafts and the intermediary shaft (which the 4G94 does not have).

You will also need:

• 4G69 ECU
• 4G69 engine harness
• 4G69 accessories and belts as the 4G94 is 4-rib but the 4G69 is 5.
  (We thought about trying to look at getting just the 4G69 pulleys but there are other issues with the ancillary components such as the power steering pumps facing completely different directions which makes getting the hoses twisted to reach the reservoir a challenge, so you'll need the 4G69 hoses/lines in addition to the pump itself. Being that my OZ had nearly 300,000km on it, we didn't even bother trying to use anything - we just sourced a bunch of used 4G69 parts; a/c, p/s, alternator...)
• Passenger side motor mount
• Intake and exhaust manis
• throttle pedal sensor assembly which bolts next the passenger side motor mount. it's drive by cable to that point, then from there an electric connection - kind of odd.
• to tap the return fuel line as the 4G69 is returnless
• MAF (different number of pins)

All things considered apart from needing to replace quite a few parts, the swap is very easy and being that the 4G69 is probably the most manufactured and readily available motor Mitsubishi has ever manufactured, you won't have too difficult a time finding an auto wrecker who can help you out.

Hope this helps!

Archlegan

iTrader: (4)

The 4G94 transmission will not bolt up to the 4G6x block. You can use a G64 or G69 transmission if you plan on staying FWD. If you want to stick with your stock axles and not swap to the Ralliart axles, you'll need to swap your Lancer differential into the G64/9 transmission, it's a direct fit. 4G64 transmission code is K5M422F6ND. I don't know what the code is for the G69 transmission.

Don- I've been reading up more on the AWD conversion; a lot of Mirage guys are doing this using the EVO floor pan. If your Outlander pan has similar dimensions, then perhaps this won't be as daunting of a task as the Lancer community believes.

Also, will you be able to retain your coilover setup in the rear, or will you be forced to use the Outlander shock absorbers? You may run into differences in the strut towers which could lead to offset height and stance in the rear.