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razorlab's simple build(s)

Old Jun 12, 2018, 12:10 PM
  #1111  
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Originally Posted by 2006EvoIXer View Post
Who assembled your head? Were the valve guides clearanced for your valves and were new valve seats cut to line up with each newly installed valve guide?
All of this is SOP for any machine shop/engine rebuilder. If you have to ask if they're doing these things, you need to find a new machinist.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
All of this is SOP for any machine shop/engine rebuilder. If you have to ask if they're doing these things, you need to find a new machinist.
I've seen a few locally built heads with loose valves after 1000 miles. I don't think it's always done right or carefully.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mrfred View Post
My plugs and pistons have been oil coated for a long time. I go through about 1 qt per 1000 miles. Runs like a champ. I wail on it every day. Its piston/ring/cylinder wall clearances are just a bit loose.
Yea, I don't play like that. I've literally swapped in new plugs before every event the last five events because I was paranoid since my plug failed last motor. The plugs have looked absolutely perfect every single time until now. I've done four compression checks over the approx 4,000 mile life of this new motor and they have been 165+ psi the whole time.

This is a new thing and only in one cylinder.

I'm not going to track a 500whp+ car with an oil covered spark plug. Hells to the no.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ayoustin View Post
How many miles are on the rebuild? Was anything reused? Is this the first set of plugs that have been used since the rebuild?

If the car was running fine before, I'd throw new plugs at it, drive on em for a couple hundred miles, pull em again, inspect and do compression and leakage tests. I've seen some freak stuff before where 1 or 2 plugs look pretty fouled but the engine runs fine, nothing wrong with compression/leakage, new plugs and they look just fine the next time they come out.
A little over 4,000 miles. Brand new set of plugs before every event the last five events. Each set maybe have 500 miles on them max. Done a compression check four times since the new motor and always come out 165psi+ each time.

All new in the head:

Kelford 214-b cams
Driven Fab billet mivec exhaust housing
Kelford valve springs
Supertech inconel exhaust valves
Supertech black nitride intake valves
GSC viton valve stem seals
GSC manganese valve guides
ARP head studs
OEM head gasket

Bottom end, bearings, pistons, rods, rings, all new.

This was really an almost no expensive spared build in that I replaced almost everything with new even though the engine itself only had 19,000 miles on it at time of failure.

I'm really hoping this is top end related and not bottom end so the motor doesn't have to come out.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 02:47 PM
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Not sure how easy it is to remove the intake manifold off a 4B but if it's a pain in the *** you could check out the top of the valves through the spark plug hole with a cheap endoscope like this:
Amazon Amazon

If it's a guide or seal problem you'll see it on the top of the valve.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 2006EvoIXer View Post
I've seen a few locally built heads with loose valves after 1000 miles. I don't think it's always done right or carefully.
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
All of this is SOP for any machine shop/engine rebuilder. If you have to ask if they're doing these things, you need to find a new machinist.
See bolded sentence.


Bryan, that sucks finding oil on the plug. I agree, I wouldn't want to track an engine with that issue. Getting enough oil in one cylinder is going to severely reduce the octane of the air/fuel charge in that cylinder and be prone to knock which could lead to bottom end damage. My highly abused and oil consuming stock engine never had plugs that were wet with oil. If compression and leak down is good, get a good look in the cylinders with a bore scope, if you don't see damage, pull the manifolds off and see if you can see a leaking valve guide/seal. Start with the intake, mostly because it's easier to pull...lol
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by razorlab View Post
A little over 4,000 miles. Brand new set of plugs before every event the last five events. Each set maybe have 500 miles on them max. Done a compression check four times since the new motor and always come out 165psi+ each time.

All new in the head:

Kelford 214-b cams
Driven Fab billet mivec exhaust housing
Kelford valve springs
Supertech inconel exhaust valves
Supertech black nitride intake valves
GSC viton valve stem seals
GSC manganese valve guides
ARP head studs
OEM head gasket

Bottom end, bearings, pistons, rods, rings, all new.

This was really an almost no expensive spared build in that I replaced almost everything with new even though the engine itself only had 19,000 miles on it at time of failure.

I'm really hoping this is top end related and not bottom end so the motor doesn't have to come out.
it doesn't make sense to have oil on plugs with so little miles on new build. #3 looks to be leaking the most oil. Did you overrev? Did you replace retainers too? I recall there were clearance problems between an aftermarker set of retainers and valve stems on the evo 8/9, not sure if X's have them too.

Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Jun 12, 2018 at 03:35 PM.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 02:56 PM
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Kelford spring kits come with retainers.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 06:03 PM
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I do have a USB endoscope that I used to look at the top of the pistons. The piston was too far up to see the walls or piston sides so I'll take a look again after I turn the motor.

Also, this is only on one plug, #3, which is (maybe a coincidence) the same plug cylinder that failed on my OEM motor.

The car regularly sees 8500rpm on track and I had hit the limiter at 8800rpm a few times the last event. Perhaps I damaged the valve train.
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Old Jun 12, 2018, 06:57 PM
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What was the failure mode of your last engine? I'd be hard pressed to believe that some sort of design flaw affecting one cylinder would rear its head this early into the build without it being a well known issue.

I'd put money on it being something small, and I'm not saying that just because that's what I want it to be lol
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Old Jun 13, 2018, 12:50 AM
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A leak down test would give a better idea of whats happening.
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Old Jun 16, 2018, 07:54 PM
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Darn.....That plug definitely got wet.....scope it and report. Cylinder and #3 intake port if possible. Compression test too like you said.
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Old Jun 17, 2018, 02:51 PM
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Today I put another set of used plugs in and drove the car around for about 15 minutes to warm it up so I could do a warm compression check. I never saw any smoke at WOT (I only WOT for about 1000rpm just to be safe) and never saw any at idle.

The plug came out with a little oil on it, not sure if it was from the oil in the cylinder or from whatever is putting oil into the cylinder.

I did a compression check and it came out solid so that made me feel better that it might just be a leaky guide or seal. Either way the head is going to have to come off. I'm going to try and make an appointment with my local shop to do a leak down test and take the head off

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Old Jun 17, 2018, 03:08 PM
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Readings look as good as last time. Looks more like valve guide or seal. Sorry head has to come off. Least your not on No. 7 engine like my brother has gone through with his Vette.....
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Old Aug 3, 2018, 10:30 AM
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Bryan,
I was looking back at your FPR problems. Are you running the OEM fuel rail, OEM FPR, and OEM 1/4" return line ? I am going to be upgrading my fuel pump from a Walbro 255 to something bigger for E85 and I don't want my fuel pressure going sky high. I have the radium hanger same as you, so that does remove some restriction at the end of the return line. If I remember right you had a progressive controller with a Walbro 450 and kept the OEM fuel rail,fpr, and 1/4" return line. But then you ripped out the progressive controller when you had fuel pressure problems. Did you upgrade the FPR and return line and run the 450 100% power all the time?

Last edited by Jaraxle; Aug 3, 2018 at 06:08 PM. Reason: fixed
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