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nice intake wonder if it will fit my fp red ill be going sd soon
Yup, it will fit. Tom gets the pipe, filter, and coupler separately to size it for your particular setup.
Originally Posted by Kevin Troy
So what is the verdict? Piston #2 oil rings clocked wrong and piston #4 sustained damage from what? Foreign object? (Spark plug broke off?)
That's a good question. There is nothing obvious yet that would indicate severe oil burning. I believe the #4 piston damage came from the spark plug insulator. If it didn't, the only other foreign object that could have entered the combustion chamber is a check ball or spring from inside the one way check valve I had between my intake manifold and catch can. Maybe it got sucked in because it couldn't handle the vacuum? I'll check it out tonight.
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone
Take close up pics of the rings installed on the pistons. We will be able to tell if oil was getting by them.
Sounds like a plan! I'll post some close ups tonight of the rings before I take them off and check for ring gap.
I have this lingering thought that even thought I didn't find any oil in my intercooler piping, what if the hot side seal of my turbo is blown and it's duping oil into my exhaust? I will forever be known as the man on evom.net who took his motor apart to find his turbo was blown
Do I have something in my eye or there is something broken off on the Manley knife edge crank? Maybe reflection??
Or is it balancing bur?
Correct, that's just a balancing burr. A large one at that. It confused me when I first got the motor. I thought to myself, "How much of this crank did they have to cut! Jeez!"
If a part of it broke off, It might have got out through exhaust valve and hit the turbine(?).
Check all turbine blades for damage...
I apologize for the crappy quality. I threw the plugs away, but here is what they looked like when I pulled them. It's a sad sight and you can see a broken insulator tip on the rightmost plug. A chunk of the porcelain is missing and the remainder is free to rotate on the center electrode:
Hmm, the threads look like they are soaked in oil. (can you confirm?)
The plug with missing porcelain insulator part, is that from the piston/cylinder #4?
Do you have log recordings maybe?
Hmm, the threads look like they are soaked in oil. (can you confirm?)
The plug with missing porcelain insulator part, is that from the piston/cylinder #4?
Do you have log recordings maybe?
Yup, that's the plug from #4. No logs of that event happening.
From looking at your Valves, it really looks like the fouling gets worse as you approach cylinder 4. Excuse my ignorance for a moment, but where does the PCV connection attach on the intake? My guess is very nearly right in front of cylinder 4.
If so, then maybe oil fouling caused detonation, damaging your plug, etc., ect. you see where I'm going with this.
The PCV connection on 8/9 manifold is on the cylinder one side of the manifold. Its a "tube" that is molded into the runners, and goes to every runner.
He was pm'ing me about it on FB yesterday, PTW was different in every cylinder. Pistons were all different sizes with all the cylinders being very close to each other. And one cylinder was at the OEM out of round limit of .0004". He still needed to check ring end gap when I was talking to him.
Are you sure you don't mean .004"? .0004" is under a half thou, most manufacturer out of round specs are around .005" If it is .004" it sounds like they may have honed the cylinders without a torque plate.
Cylinder taper matters as well, usually cylinders take on a barrel shape and they will be tighter on the top and bottom and loosest in the middle. A combo of excessive OOR and taper can definitely result in oil consumption.
OP as to your rod bolts and head studs they are perfectly fine to reuse as long as you didn't overtorque them too much. You'll just be throwing away money by buying new fasteners. More likely than not your valve guides are fine, it's kind of hard to mess up valve stem clearances to the point that there's accelerated wear. Best of luck getting everything back together, your build is very clean!
He'll have to clarify. I know .0004" isn't that bad. Factory standard is .0003", they don't list a service limit.
From the manual:
4. Check cylinder walls for scratches and seizure. If defects
are evident, replace or bore to oversize and replace pistons
and piston rings.
5. Using a cylinder gauge, measure the cylinder bore and
cylindrically. If worn badly, correct the cylinder to an oversize
and replace the piston and piston rings. Measure at the
points shown in the illustration. Standard value:
Cylinder inner diameter 85.0 mm (3.35 inches)
Cylindrically 0.01 mm (0.0003 inch) or less
Sorry for the hold up, I took a few days off to take care of some family items.
I have a few technical updates to share.
Below are tables I created with all of my best (so far) cylinder bore measurements as well as pistons sizes measured at the skirt. I used both a micrometer and digital caliper to check for consistency. In summary, this block is going in for a rehone and hot tank soon, unless the machine shop can bore 0.0010" over and then hone haha! Wouldn't a hone job do that by itself already?
I will source a new set of piston rings and run the factory PCV setup to a sealed radium catch can and then back to the intake manifold pipe. I do believe that oil and knock had a lot to do with the spark plug insulator being broken. I just need to find a machine shop with a 4g63 torque plate. I will be measuring the old piston ring gaps sometime this week.
As for the next round, I'm going for the following specs:
Ring gaps will be set as 0.020" on the top ring, 0.022" on the bottom with a PTW of 0.0050"
Opinions on this? I'll be shooting for 700hp - 800hp
In order for my PTW's to be the same throughout the block, each cylinder will need to see a different amount of cutting.
#1 will need hone 0.0009" more
#2 will need hone 0.0013" more
#3 will need hone 0.0015" more
#4 will need hone 0.0012 more
I think we can all agree that the exact bore size of each cylinder does not matter as long as it accomplishes the proper PTW. According to the factory service manual, honing can take away 0.0008"
Remember that a perfect 0.020" overbore cylinder will be 3.3661" in diameter.
You can remove as much material as you want with a hone. I've watched people hone blocks .020" over because the boring machine was being serviced. It just comes down to what stones are being used. Rough stones cut faster than finer stones and finer stones leave a better crosshatch finish.
Your desired ring end gaps look just fine for your goals. Same for PTW. Keep in mind that while measuring, your actual piston size is always the largest number you obtain out of all the times you measure it. For the bore it'd be the smallest number you see. Even if the piston or bore isn't perfectly round those are the numbers you would use since that would dictate the tightest possible clearance.
Definitely find a shop that has a torque plate, but more importantly also has diamond stones for their cylinder hone. With diamond stones they can plateau hone the cylinder walls and that will result in not only a much shorter break in period but also a much more consistent break in.
Oct 17, 2017, 11:57 AM
