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Been awhile and unfortunately have yet to get tuned! Work has been crazy and no days off. But I did end up going to the Shoot out had a great time.
I drive my Evo there from Pittsburgh just to spectate but couldn't resist trying the 11.50 index, was having some issues and didn't get many good runs in at all but all my 60 fts were 1.65-1.70 on street tires.
AND I weighed the car without me in it on Sumits scale 3060 lbs!!!! I was super stoked. That was full interior, floor mats, glove box full of stuff, 1000w amp in the trunk along with the factory SSL sub box with Pioneer sub.
Couldn't have been happier about that, so cutting some wicked consistent 60's on cheap tires/clutch and that weight is awesome for me. I'd be able to get sub-3000 pretty easily with a few basic weight reduction replacement parts.
Alright it has been an even longer time now! Everyone is in winter mode I'm sure, as am i.
Latest updates are since the Shoot out I've been learning how to tune. Downloaded all the Tephra maps and doing a TON of reading.
since I never hit the dyno with my car I just decided to try VD out (I know not that accurate to some) but I know the exact weight of my car from the scales at the track and my own weight of course so I'm sure I'm pretty close.
Also since I haven't done dyno tuning or having time for my tuner to adjust my timing and fuel for my new turbo setup I wanted to try my self.
Well after consecutive pulls on E85 and adjusting boost to where I was on the last setup at about 28-29 psi, Also at this I decided to adjust timing for where the new turbo peaked load. was at 7 peak but I decided to bring it down to 4-5 just for safety and bring down timing to 15-16 up top instead of 17-18.
VD was showing an average of 475-480hp. and 420ish tq compared to the 538whp and 450wtq I made on an actual dyno jet. Did a ton of pulls about 26 psi and was avergaing 450hp and 400tq. not bad considering I put the same compressor and turbine wheel combo in the most restrictive housing with a unported stock exhaust manifold. also peak boost of 29 psi was seen at 3700-3800rpm when I started my pulls at 2500. And holding power out to 7000-7500. For the size and cost of an upgrade like this 20G, it seems like a great band for your buck turbo. Similar to a 71 HTA but slightly bigger compressor and better flowing turbine wheel.
At 27 PSI on a Hallman boost controller I ran 11.43 at 123. I think for the weight of the car and trap speed, its right there in that 450-470hp range, considering my Xona rotor setup that made 465hp on a dynojet ran 11.4 at 122.
Also during my tuning ventures it seems that my car was starting to push coolant. not that I think its from tuning the car myself, but probably just its time to go. During E85 pulls close to 30 psi my overflow would push a little out.
sooooooooo right into the winter build! luckily before tearing it apart I switched back to 93 pump gas and with out adjusting the tune, VD was showing 375hp and 350tq at 21 psi. seems pretty potent for low boost and pump gas and a timing curve that didn't match the turbo spool.
Not sure what ill change over the winter, I know since ill be opening up the motor for the first time in 5 years, its probably best I freshen it up, especially after my oil pump taking a dump earlier this year! and what a surprise my crank looks perfect and the bearings look decent for 35k hard miles and 2-3 seasons of weekend drag passes.
Also my stage 2 Comp clutch and .290" left on it. For reference 310-320" is considered new and 260" is complete worn. so for a $525 clutch to get me 1.63-1.65 60fts' on street tires almost every run, drive like stock, no shudder, launching it multiple times in the same day (and driving to the shoot out from Pittsburgh, racing, and driving home) I count be happier, id glady put a new one in every year if I had to just because for my power level and future power, its an amazing clutch.
PLANS FOR NEXT YEAR:
Fresh up my Curt Brown 2.0 block
Switch to a Non ACD transfer case
run everything the same setup (same things that make power)
Convert my turbo to TD06 Turbine wheel from the Td05.
Learn how to tune more and get results from my own work
Hopefully get that 2999 weight on the scale!
And of course alllllll the pictures since everybody likes pictures
Side Note: That HKS timing belt came in handy holding up my transfer case while I took the engine and trans out! (Also its for sale. HKS Purple Timing belt, 35k miles, lightly used, $50)
Well its been even longer this time around. Its been a crazy two years since I've updated this thread and so much has changed! so I might as well start where I left off.
As some or many may know I ended up making this turbo building into a business, its been a wild ride and lots of turbos out there doing work, and I cant help but mention all the customers I've had since that trusted me, and helped support what I do to this day. and now back to the build!
so we ended with my original motor coming apart and pulling everything out.
Ended up getting the whole block/crank/ rods and pistons to Curt Brown for the refresh. Turned out everything was great, After a hone, new bearings, rings, Rod bolts, and assembly I was back to new and was able to reuse all the hard parts. Same went for the head, resurfaced, valve job and new valves seals, brought everything back to new condition.
Getting back I picked up a used but built Non-ACD RS transfer case. reused my same Comp Stage 2 clutch and everything seemed to go back together pretty well.
I did change my plans for this year though. I invested tons of time over that winter to helping tune friends cars, and I decided it was time I started over from scratch.
Bought FID 1000CC injectors(since it would be easier to tune than the 2000's I had), a standard off the shelf Tephra V7 MAF tune (<yes I started on MAF to get the basics!) and I started with an Evo 8 stock turbo.
I figure, I wanted the car to be very basic from a tuning and power stand point so if anything bad happened I wouldn't hurt much.
I also wanted to get baseline runs with my setup on a stock turbo and as I decided to step up in power/size, I would have tons of good info on back pressure (I added a simple back pressure gauge at the manifold) along with power, spool, tuning, and finding what wheels worked and what didn't. Ive made it my goal with the car to not only go 10's now, but test my turbo creations, and to test anything further in the future that peaks my interest.
after getting my Car back together,
back on a MAF, stock turbo, 1000cc injectors, and back pressure sensing. Start up was rather easy, punch in some ID1000 scaling scallings, bunch of miles driving to get the Fuel map setup for some boost and just on gate pressure. soon in a few days adding a Grimmspeed EBC. took quite awhile to build a timing map, but just a bunch of seat time with the laptop and the car was running great.
I actually started building on a Tuesday night, and had the engine together, started, and tuning by that Saturday morning in the spring 2018. and amazingly was on PRL motorsports dynojet another 7 days later.
after tons of street pulls on the new engine and adding EBC boost control was Able to get a solid 26-27 PSI spike and natural fall to 18 psi by 7500 rpm with the stock evo 8 turbo. Virtual dyno was showing an average of 350hp and 350 torque. Id say for the average stock turbo on 93 octane, AND tuning myself. the car was great.
And to back it up, My car on PRL's dyno I was within 5-10hp of a real dyno. Denis at PRL while on the dyno during dyno day 2018, gave me some awesome tuning pointers that really helped get the car running better even in the few short pulls I was limited too.
Some Interesting notes that I may make another thread for was back pressure. With a stock evo 8 turbo, by 7500rpm I had 17 psi of boost, but back pressure/turbine drive pressure was 34psi at the same 7500rpm. from my experience, most stock turbo cars will have this type of ratio between boost and exhaust back pressure. but things get more interesting as I go bigger!
All pictures will be in the next post along with some pics of newer turbos that are going on next after the stocker!
Alright from the last pictures youll see above this post theres a few I didn't explain yet in my last post.
Youll see my Dyno graph, first time I sat in a car on the dyno and it was awesome. Denis @PRL helped me a ton to understand what was happening and where using the dyno VS my log. My timing map at the time wasn't the best but Fuel was close. And later on I realized the Boost control settings were messed up, as youll see I spiked some obnoxious boost on spool up and spiked 400tq then it dies off.
after driving the car for a few weeks and learning more about ignition timing and making a smoother graphs, etc. I couldn't really get more out of the stock turbo. just hitting 26-27psi on pump gas and still tapered off to 17-18 psi at redline, and anymore timing just resulted in knock. So time to change!
I didn't switch to a stock 9 turbo, that may have been a decent idea at the time for comparison, but I was more interested in going to a cast 20G compressor wheel with OEM turbine wheel, and the 10.5cm turbine housing and the anti surge compressor cover since I didn't have non-ported cover at the time.
this made for an interesting change. no other changes, just the turbo, now I was hitting 27 psi like before, but being able to hold about 19-20 to my 7500rpm redline. VD was around 390-400hp, vs 350-360hp that the stock 8 turbo made. Injector duty cycle was up, and knock was less apparent. the turbo was flowing more and easier. spool was a little laggier, but only by 1-200rpm. and back pressure was 33-34psi at 7500rpm.
So I gained a decent amount of HP, with out changing back pressure, and having a better ratio of boost pressure to back pressure.
obviously this was what would happen, but seeing the changes first hand and how the car reacted, was very fascinating from a tuning stand point, and this was a very small change. I ran this turbo setup for abut a month, just like before, seeing what I could squeeze out of the turbo, and ignition timing.
my timing map relatively stayed the same during this year. mainly having around 2-4* at peak and 12-14* at 7500rpm. seemed my engine liked that, and only minor adjusts for the bigger turbos to get back to that similar peak and top end timing.
Youll also notice my Radiator setup. the Half rad I had was probably the biggest money could buy, but it was a little thrown together for what it was and I bought used. so I wanted to be better, and bigger. I chose an eBay brand VW scirocco radiator. Slim, lots of surface area, etc. I chose this since lots of DSM guys used this rad, I just bought one without a rad cap, flipped it 180, and it fir perfect inside the radiator support of the evo, after I cut the center Rad support out. combined with my big Mishimoto 1800CFM fan made for a really cool, and decently light weight cooling system, but most importantly, ALL THE ROOM FOR ACTIVITIES. I was now able to swap turbos in about 45 minutes. loved it.
so going up on July 2018 now, I changed turbos again. This time I went with my favorite, a Billet KTS 20G compressor wheel, but on the turbine side was pretty special.
for a few years, FP made the "HTA Green" with a custom 1-off Reverse rotation 65x55mm turbine wheel. Smaller than the red turbine, but bigger than the OG green turbine. I happened to get one of these greens in the shop that I bought, and kept the turbine wheel and matching housing. This became my fancy new billet 20G. This turbo was one of my favorites. Spool was great around 4000-4200 full boost, as well as holding more boost to redline. Same anti surge compressor cover and a 10.5cm turbine housing. I ran this turbo for the whole summer, it was just plain fun on pump gas.
just like the upgrade before. Less knock happening, better boost holding, and more power at similar boost levels. 26-27psi, holding 23-24 at 7500rpm. now averaging 430-450hp on virtual dyno. with the same timing map as before. And to add, with the bigger wheels, I was still seeing 32-34psi of back pressure on the gauge but gained a decent amount of boost pressure at the same rpm. my Boost/Exhaust pressure ratio was getting better, and I was gaining power.
I even ended up hitting the track and getting an 11.6 @118. this was my first, self tuned run at a track. and I couldn't be happier. also managed a 1.58 60ft on street tires! crazy stuff, 93octane, and some decent driving. I'm not the best driver, but I was really proud of how far I've come in a short amount of time. the next post will have a Billet 20G VS stock 8 turbine comparison at the same boost and similar AFR. and some pics and video runs at the track
now on the Billet 20G. made the track, and even made the DSM Shoot out 2018!!! and made a decent pass just to say I ran that year. 11.9 at 117. Drove to and from Pittsburgh, got there Sunday at 2am and left 8pm Sunday night. Had a great time but started noticing my car not shifting well.
I had about 8-9k miles on my Comp Stage 2 clutch ( still my favorite clutch) but seemed to be getting warped from all the launches. So I took the leap and decided to change it out. and me being me, I wanted to try something new. So I found the South Bend Stage 2. Rated for the same torque as the Comp 2, but should be easier pedal feel from what they say, so I took the dive. Fresh Exedy Stock replacement flywheel, and Stage 2 South bend clutch.
Around that time I decided to change turbos again. This time going to a Red size turbo. OEM inlet size.
Breaking in the south bend felt kinda weird. Pedal feel was soooooo soft, but it did hold the power during tuning pulls. The new red size turbo was doing well too, averaging around 480-500hp with 93 octane and able to push 28-30 psi without having knock. Not much laggier than my special Billet 20G, so was a very nice upgrade for the power.
doing a similar baseline as before, 27 psi now holding to about 25-26 psi ny 7500rpm. And Back pressure being still in the realm of 32-34psi, was making another 30-40hp on average over the 20G.
Wow a lot has changed, looks like i was right at the end of 2018 with the new clutch going into Fall 2018 with the red size turbo, made it to a track day and come to find out that Kevlar clutches, apparently dont like to be laucnh?!?! didnt hold anything off the line, just straight to rev limiter. So that was disappointing. i think i ran a 18.5 at 62mph
Left the track and took it home.
SO had to get a new clutch solution and decided to go with a ACT HDSS and continue my single disc adventures!
coming home from that track event, found a nice surprise under the car the next day, leaking right at the oil pump. AGAIN, but not a blown pump, crazy enough, the oil pump pulley nut spun off and was trapped behind the timing cover, and the pump gear some how stayed on, no idea how i didnt just ruin all my valve's at the track or on the way home, wouldve thought this be a catastrophic failure. just tightened the nut up with Loctite, and been great ever since
Sometime in this process of getting a new clutch and fixing the oil pump pulley, decided once again to swap turbos. that red size was great, but at this time i was exploring a weird turbo from the Mitsubishi line up that only came on select evos, the 15GK2, for comparison measures 49x65mm(high trim) the oem 16g is 48x68mm, i was so intrigued and found a Billet 7 blade drop-in wheel for it, had to give it a try! this was the smallest and lightest turbo rotating assembly i had done so far, and man did it spool, i believe to be in the realm of 410ish hp on E85, but torque was higher, and right upfront in the powerband, you can see the pic below for reference on size, it was tiny!
By this time it was winter and time to put the car away for the year, end 2018
EDIT: on the last post with the new 15GK2 turbo, it was on 93 pump gas, not e85
once the weather finally got better to get the car out, i dove into tuning, over the winter with helping lots of customers get their cars up and running, i got pretty deep into doing Speed Density tuning, and wanted to make the jump on my own evo
I had base mapped a couple of evo 8's between MAF and 2DSD.
with the 2DSD or whatever you want to call it, i could not for the life of me in the begging of my tuning experience, get rid of the lean out issue on take off, ive come to not like 2D at all for this reason, i may be able to figure it out nowadays, but once i jumped right into the Speed Density2.0 / 3DSD, everything went way smoother and was much easier to get the car going. The resolution, and smoothing driving nature of 3D is awesome, i spent tons of times reading tuning forums on 3dSD and probably 3-4 days a week in 2019 just tuning the car anytime i took it anywhere, to try and get as much tuning seat time as possible.
SO after about 1-2 months in spring time really dialing in the 3DSD stuff, i made the jump to e85, was a bit nervous, but found it be so much easier to tune, once i got the injectors scaled, and fueling adjusted to be a bit leaner, aiming for that 11.8-12.0 range, it was soooo nice not seeing knock as much, to keep it safe (safe in my mind) i kept the same timing maps. i figured up boost a bit, run it in the high 11's AFR, would be a safe way to approach tuning E85 until i had more confidence getting to learn more about the fuel.
queue May 2019 and off with the 15GK2 turbo and on with a Custom 20G, along with my short tuning experience, i didnt really try anything outside of stock frame turbos and internal wastegates.
So this 20G featured a Billet 7 blade compressor wheel ( with a fancy clipping on it), but matched to a very large TD06HR turbine wheel, and combined with an FP SS turbine housing, for all the flow, and external wastegate setup, i was super excited to get to try this.
First tuning notes, couldnt be happier, as much as i liked a snappy, quick spooling turbine, the lightweight 20G rotating assembly still lit up rather fast,but having all the exhaust flow ever and all the wastegate control was so awesome.
Being i was still on FID1000cc injectors, i also come to find the limit REALLY fast. all i got to do was gate pressure tuning on this setup and injectors, without any boost control at all on the 3port, was holding 20-21 psi nicely out the top, i had probably 2* of timing at peak torque, around the 4500 area, and maybe 12* out the top at 7500, and this thing was SMOOTH, super impressed with a somewhat laggier turbo that had no exhaust restriction. alot better than breathing on the throttle with a smaller turbo and being at 30psi instantly, this made for a much easier drive in the environment that i live in. Only issue now was my 1000cc injectors were at 116% IDC
this was a very modest and very well rounded, 450hp/350tq, on e85. i think something like this would make a great stock block turbo, and still feel awesome on the street, while pulling all the way to redline
i think up to this point in time, this was my favorite turbo setup. the ease of tuning and boost control, combined with how it drove, just made for a nice driving evo that ripped for even just the little 450hp it did on gate pressure
Alright going further into 2019, i really started cranking up this 20G, was getting comfortable on e85 up to the 30psi range and still keeping timing low, around 12* out the top and AFR around 11.8., VD would be in the 500ish+ range,
now finally with a decent clutch, made it back to the track to get a few passes in, this ACT HDSS did well, i did 1.71' 60 ft's all day, was very consistent, but was having a hard time shifting, ending the day on a 11.3 at 126. which i still couldnt be happier since i had tuned it and did perfect at the track as far as tuning goes! big accomplishment for sure. self tuned on MAF doing 11.8 at 119 with pump gas and now 11.3 at 126 on e85 with 3DSD!
now the fun part, up to this point, in the past year, i thought my comp was hard shifting, and when i installed the HDSS ACT, it was still hard to shift, i had the clutch pedal adjustment all the way out (without noticing anything else under the dash/see pics)
well went to leave the track that day and boom. something under the dash snapped, and my clutch pedal went halfway down
i still had enough clutch to drive the car, and i had to make it to work (after the track right? on call weekend) so limped it to work and then limped it home just to find my clutch pedal assembly had cracked! it mustve been on the way out for awhile, and come to find out this is a common issue on older evos.
Luckily borrowed a welder from work, bought a good used pedal assembly and got it all back together! shifts are much much much better now!
Always amazing to me the stuff ive learned and been through with this car.
Aug 30, 2017, 11:09 PM
