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Ayoustin Jun 3, 2017 09:30 AM

FakeRaceCar 2.0
 
Hey guys, I'm new here. Just picked up an 04 evo 8 last week. Flew down to Tuscon AZ and drove it back home to Chicago IL. Some details about the car/mods:

- Stock longblock
- CBRD bbk-b ball bearing turbo
- ETS intercooler and piping
- ETS intake
- Omni 4 bar map sensor
- APS bypass valve
- Spoolinup coil on plug kit
- Manual boost controller
- Greddy rad cap
- Buschur turboback exhaust
- Ported ehxaust manifold
- Torque Solutions front engine mount
- Ebay special O2 dump
- FIC 1100cc injectors
- Wally 255 fuel pump
- Exedy stage 1 HD clutch
- 18x10.5 NT03 w/275/35 Victra RC1 slicks
- Ohlins flag series coilovers 10k/12k
- Technafit braided brake lines
- Binary brake ducts
- Whiteline front and rear sway bar
- Whiteline steering precision, roll center adjust, bump steer kits
- Whiteline rear upper control arm bushings
- Sheptrans stage 2 transfercase
- Wavetrac front lsd
- Sheptrans rear diff
- 10 point cage
- Racetech driver seat
- Corbeau passenger seat
- Schroth harnesses
- Sparco 383 steering wheel with quick release
- Lexan windows
- Custom front and rear crash bars
- Custom alumilite front splitter
- Kognition rear spoiler
- Defi boost and oil temp gauges, AEM wideband

I'll be using the car for pretty much everything I can. The 275 Victra RC1 slicks I'll be using for road courses, might try them for autox too but I don't think they'll heat up fast enough so I'll probably end up using the 17x9.5 w/255 Hankook RS3v2 NT03 wheels I have laying around for autox. Also have a set of RX7 FD wheels w/245/50 Nitto NT555R drag radials which I'll be using for the strip.

Right now the car has a dual tune for 91 and E85, it dynoed 330whp and 400whp respectively on a mustang dyno. I'm probably going to use this tune for tracks and autox. I'm planning on having a hotter tune made for the strip.

Speaking of the strip I went to US41 drag strip earlier this week just to see how I could do with the car as is. Only got 5 passes in before getting rained out. Managed a pretty mediocre 12.56 @117 with a 2.1 60'. The clutch is definitely a weak link as the car bogs pretty hard launching at 4k and the clutch can't handle 6k launches so getting out of the hole is definitely a balancing act. It also feels like I'm getting a high rpm lockout when trying to shift hard at 7500rpm which I'm thinking might be the clutch at fault.

My plans for the car are to try and get its' weight as close to 2700lbs while retaining factory body panels and gas tank. Currently the car sits a bit under 2900lbs. Some of the big places I've thought to shave weight are through a lighter driveshaft, tubular subframes, rear diff mustache delete mount and possibly a lighter exhaust. I still have one year of school left so I won't be dumping tons of money into it for a while but things I'm changing this season (or at least hope to be) are moving to a Comp Clutch twin disc, getting a hotter tune, CAE ultra shifter (already ordered but it'll be 3-5 weeks until I get it), possibly a tubular exhaust manifold, and maybe some GSC S2 cams and valve springs.


Anyway, enough of my jabbering. Here's some photos of the car!

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...d3ca8f045d.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...700dc8016d.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...43461bd4d6.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...58fa48e482.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...1a7fd17ec2.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...f2c521c869.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...a55180eef5.jpg

V.8MR Jun 3, 2017 03:58 PM

Ahh you bought "FakeRaceCar" GTABurnouts car. Congrats. Looks to be a well setup car. Also sure hope you arent going to daily it?

Ayoustin Jun 3, 2017 10:42 PM


Originally Posted by V.8MR (Post 11745082)
Ahh you bought "FakeRaceCar" GTABurnouts car. Congrats. Looks to be a well setup car. Also sure hope you arent going to daily it?

Yep! Hunter's a real cool dude. I have a miata that I daily but the evo still sees the street some days.

RazorLab Jun 4, 2017 09:16 AM

You are crazy to drive that with a full cage on the street. Please don't put anybody you care about in it.

LetsGetThisDone Jun 4, 2017 10:45 PM

Keep in mind, you should always wear a helmet in a caged car. Tubes and heads don't mix.

Ayoustin Jun 6, 2017 08:47 PM

I appreciate you guys looking out for me. All tubes that are within striking distance of heads are padded. I am aware of the dangers of driving a caged car on the street.

Ordered the other 3 engine mounts from Torque Solutions as well as driveshaft carrier bushings. Found shifter base and cable bushings already on the car as well which was a nice surprise.


Talked a bit with our in house tuner at work (JRtuned) and the plan is to convert the car over to speed density and make a flat 400wtq curve to keep the rods in the block. Whatever power that ends up making I'll be happy with. I started looking into things I might need to change for more power and have some questions.

It's looking like I may need a larger fuel pump to get closer to 500whp. Do you guys think 500whp is doable on a hardwired 255 or should I look into getting a 320 or 340? I looked into a Wally 450 as well but I don't want to have to upgrade my return line. Could I get away with a 450 and the stock return if I retain the low voltage function via using a hobb's switch to control the hardwire?

Also was looking around at FPRs, does anyone make one that bolts onto the stock fuel rail besides ATP? I found a thread from way back about a Buschur piece but it doesn't look like they sell it anymore.

Lastly, I'm looking to do preventative maintenance on the car. Going to flush the water/water wetter and throw in a new thermostat. The timing belt was done ~15k ago so that's good. Are there any other wear items that would be a good idea to change out or that are known to fail on evos?

RazorLab Jun 6, 2017 09:37 PM

That foam padding won't do anything to protect your bare head in an accident. The forces are immense.

electron bom Jun 7, 2017 04:40 PM

Adding 1/2" of foam padding will only remove a very trivial amount of energy from the collision between your skull and the roll cage in the event of a crash. Padding the cage is only to prevent bumps while stationary and helmetless. Btw your pics are really nice, great backdrops.

He had a roll cage and no helmet...

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...1192d675e9.png

itsmyturn Jun 8, 2017 06:20 AM

^^^He'll be fine, it's just a scratch.

Seriously, though that is why roll cages and helmets go hand in hand.

MrHalfSack Jun 8, 2017 07:34 AM

Good lookin car!

And that little bump on the guy's head just needs a little water and Motrin.

Ayoustin Jul 4, 2017 10:11 AM

Got the car to blackhawk farms this past Saturday, unfortunately had to cut the day short after 4 sessions. Car kept overheating on every session and after 4 I decided I'd pushed my luck enough. Had a great time learning the course at least.

So the deal is the car is eating coolant under boost, my guess is the head is lifting during that time because it doesn't consume any coolant during normal driving. I've pressure tested the coolant system and it didn't lose pressure. In the next week or two I'll be pulling the head off to replace the head gasket and throw in some head studs, cams, valve springs and valve seals.

What I'm looking at is ARP 2000 headstuds, GSC beehive springs, and either FP4R cams or GSC S2 cams. I also considered the S1 cams as well. I don't want to sacrifice any transient response or mid-range power but I also want to pick up some top end power. If anyone has some input/experience on that it'd be greatly appreciated. Regardless of what cams I get I'll be doing springs as I think it'd be a good idea to change out the stockers with 98k on them.

And lastly, some good news, yesterday I finally got my CAE shifter in the mail! This thing is seriously amazing. Shifting is extremely notchy and crisp. The throws are very short for how high the shifter is and there's zero vagueness about going into gear. I'm a big stickler about having a good feeling shifter and I have zero complaints about this thing, hands down one of my favorite parts I've ever put on a car.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...eb566512c2.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...049d2e3f1a.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...c3eaa4b8a1.jpg

electron bom Jul 5, 2017 06:19 AM

That shifter is amazing. Post vid of it in action? :)

itsmyturn Jul 5, 2017 06:48 AM

That shifter is a gorgeous piece.

Ayoustin Jul 6, 2017 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by electron bom (Post 11754242)
That shifter is amazing. Post vid of it in action? :)

I'll be heading to the strip this weekend, I'll try to remember to bring my gopro.

Managed an 11.56@119 on street tires a couple weeks ago. Clutch really didn't like that though, going to see if I can get some consistent 11.6-11.7 passes. Looking to get a comp twin disk in the near future.

NJ9MR Jul 6, 2017 10:27 AM

Best of luck! You'll have one hell of a track warrior!

bboypuertoroc Jul 6, 2017 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by MrHalfSack (Post 11746402)
Good lookin car!

And that little bump on the guy's head just needs a little water and Motrin.

Would be a veteran that says some sh!t like this :lol:

MrHalfSack Jul 15, 2017 11:06 AM


Originally Posted by bboypuertoroc (Post 11754689)
Would be a veteran that says some sh!t like this :lol:

Haha. You know it!

Ayoustin Aug 3, 2017 08:54 PM

Well the car is a bit torn apart right now. Pulled the engine, trans and tcase out the bottom of the car last saturday to fix/upgrade stuff. Got the engine torn down earlier this week and found the fire ring on the head gasket was fried on cyl 1. Originally the plan was swap out the head gasket and do a clutch but I ended up buying a bit more. So all the parts I've got going in now:
- Comp Clutch stage 4 sprung clutch
- Comp Clutch lightweight flywheel
- Stock head gasket
- ARP headstuds
- AEM 320 lph fuel pump
- STM EGR delete
- Thermostat
- Radium clutch fork stop
- ACT monoloc
- ARP flywheel bolts
- Spoolinup SD harness and IAT
- Tial BOV
- MAP divided O2 housing gasket
- GSC valve seals
- Upper rad hose
- Other misc gaskets

Yesterday I looked at my bores and checked them out with a bore gauge. I was honestly quite surprised, original engine with 100k on it and plenty of track days and not only did most of the cylinder walls still have their cross hatching but out of round and taper were both under .001" almost everywhere.

So after seeing that I decided to order up some Manley pistons (9:1 CR std bore) and H beam rods as well as ACL tri metal bearings to drop in. My power goal isn't crazy high so I don't need the best of the best pistons and rods, they're more for piece of mind than going crazy with power. I'm thinking I should be able to get around 500whp without issue (and that would be plenty for me) but we'll see after I get it on the dyno at work

Lastly, I'm going to have the head decked a thou or two in case there was any small warpage and to ensure the new head gasket seals nicely. Also I'm pricing out materials currently to have one of the fabricators at work make me a titanium exhaust for the track, it's just going to be a short downpipe that comes straight down from the o2 housing and stops at the front axles or so, nothing fancy but should help remove considerable weight over a full exhaust.

I'll try to update with photos soon if I can get them over to my computer without too much fuss.

Ayoustin Aug 6, 2017 11:15 AM

Pictures of teardown stuff. Still busy cleaning up the deck on the block and washing parts but things are moving along. Should have pistons, rods, and bearings tomorrow and get the ring end gaps set as well as get the rods and pistons balanced. Shooting to have the bottom end reassembled tuesday and the longblock back together either wednesday or thursday.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...ac9fe6d868.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...ecea1cab26.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...46f17b93c7.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...ab38237bfe.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...37c366fb63.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...7bdf9830ed.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...dac6cde32d.jpg

V.8MR Aug 6, 2017 02:20 PM

Do you work at P&L? I know Pauly really well. Went to HS with him.

Ayoustin Aug 6, 2017 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by V.8MR (Post 11762716)
Do you work at P&L? I know Pauly really well. Went to HS with him.

Yup! Been working there for a few months now. It's funny owning an evo and working for a shop that mostly builds wrxs and stis, and yes I get plenty of **** from Paul and my coworkers for it haha. Mind me asking your name?

V.8MR Aug 6, 2017 02:37 PM

Yeah, my name is Marc. I have a AS Evo8 as well. They did a bunch of work around 05 for me when I bought my car. I even had a sponsorship on my STI back in the day when they were still at their old Franklin Park location.

itsmyturn Aug 6, 2017 04:04 PM

Wow, you weren't kidding about the cross hatching.

Ayoustin Aug 6, 2017 07:57 PM


Originally Posted by itsmyturn (Post 11762736)
Wow, you weren't kidding about the cross hatching.

Yea I'm super pleased to see it. I'd be leaving the bottom end stock if it didn't look this good.



Originally Posted by V.8MR (Post 11762719)
Yeah, my name is Marc. I have a AS Evo8 as well. They did a bunch of work around 05 for me when I bought my car. I even had a sponsorship on my STI back in the day when they were still at their old Franklin Park location.

It's a small world haha. I just read your entire build thread, I'll be following in your footsteps stripping out unused wires and relooming the harnesses as well as other weight reduction while the car is stored for the winter. I wonder how much weight the entire ACD system comes out to.

Ayoustin Aug 7, 2017 11:28 PM

Pistons, rods, and bearings came in today. Unfortunately I didn't have time to get much done, got almost half the deck cleaned up but that's it.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...11d6b93a9c.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...932554cd05.jpg

LetsGetThisDone Aug 9, 2017 10:28 AM

I would still send the block to the machine shop for a hone to make sure the rings seat nicely. With STD size pistons and a good virgin bore like you have, a hone should still net ptw of 4 to 4.5 thou.

Ayoustin Aug 9, 2017 07:43 PM

A bit behind schedule but I'd rather take my time than rush it. Pistons and rods are assembled, rings are filed (set top to .020" and second to .024"), deck is cleaned off, bores are honed, valves are cleaned, oil pan and pan rails are cleaned.

I would have the bottom end assembled if my dumbass didn't forget a ring compressor. Once I get the head decked I'll reassemble the valvetrain and get the head ready to drop on.

Need to pick up some other miscellaneous gaskets and new spark plugs. Hoping to get the car fired on sunday but that all depends on me being able to work on it. Assuming that gets done I'll get the engine and clutch broken in and hop on the dyno by the end of the week for a retune.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...14fdf7a840.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...ebe53133db.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...a4c58a4722.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...db73f007f9.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...2865d56727.jpg



Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11763442)
I would still send the block to the machine shop for a hone to make sure the rings seat nicely. With STD size pistons and a good virgin bore like you have, a hone should still net ptw of 4 to 4.5 thou.

Ran a ball hone through the bores and it cleaned up very nicely (see pics above). The amount of downtime and cost it would add to send it to a machine shop isn't worth it to me. After talking with Manley, they said they size their pistons .003-.0035" under the bore size they're made for so my ptw should be right about .005-.0055" which is right where I want to be.

LetsGetThisDone Aug 10, 2017 05:53 AM

They def cleaned up nicely.

Ayoustin Aug 10, 2017 09:16 PM

Not much progress today, had to leave early. Head is milled, it was warped in the same area the gasket blew out. Ended up taking off ~.003" total. I wasn't terribly fond of all the casting flash in the oil drainbacks on the head so I filed those smooth. Going to run the head through the wash tank one more time and possibly the sonic cleaner as well and then get it reassembled and ready to drop on the shortblock.

And more fail, I should have checked the box when I got it earlier this week but I was sent the wrong bearings. Got .025" unders instead of standards so once again the bottom end isn't assembled yet. Going to give a ring to a couple of evo shops in the area in the morn and cross my fingers that one of them has a set in stock...

First picture is the initial pass, ~.001 off. Second picture is final pass after another .002" taken off.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...408e841165.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...6d8d6dfd4a.jpg

Juanald89 Aug 11, 2017 12:04 PM

Damn, Just picked my EVO last October and am in Chicago. Been trying to get out to events, but so far just car shows in the western burbs.

Ayoustin Aug 11, 2017 05:42 PM

Didn't stay late today but shortblock is together, just need to slap the pickup and pan on. Going in tomorrow to get the longblock assembled and mated to the trans. Might be able to start vehicle install if there's an open lift.


Originally Posted by Juanald89 (Post 11764112)
Damn, Just picked my EVO last October and am in Chicago. Been trying to get out to events, but so far just car shows in the western burbs.

There's lots of track days at gingerman, blackhawk farms and autobahn. If I'm not at a track then I'm at the dragstrip or autocrossing haha. I think I've only been to one or two shows with the evo, I don't find them as fun as I used to but every now and then I'll get dragged out to one.

kaj Aug 11, 2017 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by ayoustin (Post 11764211)
I think I've only been to one or two shows with the evo, I don't find them as fun as I used to but every now and then I'll get dragged out to one.

Sad, but true. I'm now 43 years old and I, literally, don't even speak the same language as those kids.
:lol:
That, and I get bored. Every car out there:
Looks like a race car but can't race car? Check.
Horrible offset and sized wheels? Check.
Tire stickers? Check.
Rinse. Repeat.
:crap:

Ayoustin Aug 11, 2017 08:36 PM


Originally Posted by kaj (Post 11764214)
Sad, but true. I'm now 43 years old and I, literally, don't even speak the same language as those kids.
:lol:
That, and I get bored. Every car out there:
Looks like a race car but can't race car? Check.
Horrible offset and sized wheels? Check.
Tire stickers? Check.
Rinse. Repeat.
:crap:

Hahaha I feel the exact same way; bored unless I'm with a good group of friends. Unfortunately I have to call those type of people the typical car enthusiast of my generation. Can't tell you how much I would give be born 10 years earlier...

itsmyturn Aug 12, 2017 07:16 AM


Originally Posted by kaj (Post 11764214)
Sad, but true. I'm now 43 years old and I, literally, don't even speak the same language as those kids.
:lol:
That, and I get bored. Every car out there:
Looks like a race car but can't race car? Check.
Horrible offset and sized wheels? Check.
Tire stickers? Check.
Rinse. Repeat.
:crap:

This is so true. Haha

Ayoustin Aug 13, 2017 10:18 AM

Well yesterday I got the engine from a block with a rotating assembly to a fully dressed engine ready to drop in. The only mishap er surprise I fortunately caught while I was timing the engine. During the whole time I had the engine apart I was on the fence about doing a balance shaft delete but in the end I didn't have the expendable funds to buy a kit that gets rid of the counterweights and I didn't want to run a stub shaft so I left them in. While I was timing the engine I found a slight issue with the rear shaft belt...


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...f6874f8f56.jpg

So no rear shaft for me. Next time I have the engine out I'll either throw in a weightless race shaft or pull the stock shaft and turn it down in a lathe. Going to get the clutch and trans on the engine monday morning and crossing my fingers there will be an open lift to start vehicle install monday evening.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...71b14bee7c.jpg

kaj Aug 13, 2017 10:26 AM

Without the belt, the rear shaft won't move. No need to machine it down. Or are you talking about the front?
I left my rear shaft in with no belt so oil pressures stay the same. My oil pump already had the stub shaft installed. I was gonna use both shafts, but I couldn't get that stub out.
:lol:

Ayoustin Aug 13, 2017 10:32 AM


Originally Posted by kaj (Post 11764462)
Without the belt, the rear shaft won't move. No need to machine it down. Or are you talking about the front?
I left my rear shaft in with no belt so oil pressures stay the same. My oil pump already had the stub shaft installed. I was gonna use both shafts, but I couldn't get that stub out.
:lol:

Front shaft. The race shaft kits are all like $200 which I'd rather not spend if I don't have to. Really just comes down to me having the time to pull the shaft and get it turned down. As for the rear shaft, can't you pull the shaft and rotate the bearings to keep oil pressure from dropping?

kaj Aug 13, 2017 10:42 AM

You can, but then oil pressure runs kinda high. I didn't want to have that problem either. I also wanted a turned-down shaft for the front, but I didn't have the extra $200, either LOL

Ayoustin Aug 13, 2017 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by kaj (Post 11764467)
You can, but then oil pressure runs kinda high. I didn't want to have that problem either. I also wanted a turned-down shaft for the front, but I didn't have the extra $200, either LOL

Good to know, thanks. I suppose I could turn down the rear shaft as well to drop some weight lol. Or maybe drill smaller holes in the bearings to keep pressure where it is hmm

kaj Aug 13, 2017 11:08 AM

That's a lotta trouble to go through, though. You think it would make that much difference, as opposed to just leaving it in there?

Ayoustin Aug 13, 2017 11:54 AM


Originally Posted by kaj (Post 11764471)
That's a lotta trouble to go through, though. You think it would make that much difference, as opposed to just leaving it in there?

Definitely not much of a difference at all honestly but I'm trying to save weight everywhere I can and I'd venture that both the shafts together weigh 10ish pounds, I bet their weight is posted somewhere.

My goal is to get the car under 2700lbs retaining factory body panels and fuel tank.

LetsGetThisDone Aug 15, 2017 09:19 AM

You can't run one balance shaft, it will cause issue. Just pick up the OEM stub shaft, they're like $30, and leave the rear shaft in with no belt on it (so you don't have to redo the bearings to cover the oil ports)

Ayoustin Aug 15, 2017 09:37 PM

Car should be back together and running tomorrow. Just need to reconnect the hotpipe, downpipe, oil cooler lines, serpentine belt and front engine mount as well as fill it with fluids. Then I'll break in the clutch and engine and try to get it on the dyno before the week is over.

Gave the new clutch (comp stage 4) a try and was surprised at how light it is. I've grown used to driving on/off feeling twin and triple disk stuff but this barely feels more aggressive than the exedy stage 1 I just took out. But that's just initial impressions without the engine running.



Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11765038)
You can't run one balance shaft, it will cause issue. Just pick up the OEM stub shaft, they're like $30, and leave the rear shaft in with no belt on it (so you don't have to redo the bearings to cover the oil ports)

I actually have experience developing balance shaft assemblies for OEMs. After reviewing hundreds of run hours of data on engines I can't say they really do all that much. Now I haven't looked at the design used on the 4g63 but if it's like most balance shaft systems then it shouldn't be of much concern to just run one. With paired shaft systems (pretty much all balance shaft designs) the counterweights on the shafts aren't canceling out each other other, they're damping crank vibrations due to inherent design imbalances that all 4 cylinders have (by the way there are plenty of 4 cylinder engines that don't use balance shafts). By running 1 shaft you're just cutting that damping weight in half, it's still in time with the engine. Either way, I'll find out.

Eric SlowEvo8 Aug 16, 2017 05:48 AM

ah rpf1s look so good . good progress cant wait to see it done

LetsGetThisDone Aug 16, 2017 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by ayoustin (Post 11765303)
I actually have experience developing balance shaft assemblies for OEMs. After reviewing hundreds of run hours of data on engines I can't say they really do all that much. Now I haven't looked at the design used on the 4g63 but if it's like most balance shaft systems then it shouldn't be of much concern to just run one. With paired shaft systems (pretty much all balance shaft designs) the counterweights on the shafts aren't canceling out each other other, they're dampening crank vibrations due to inherent design imbalances that all 4 cylinders have (by the way there are plenty of 4 cylinder engines that don't use balance shafts). By running 1 shaft you're just cutting that dampening weight in half, it's still in time with the engine. Either way, I'll find out.

I know there are plenty of I4's that don't use balance shafts. As far as how they're timed, I've never bothered to look and see if the balance shafts are timed the same as each other. I guess if the they are timed the same, running one won't hurt.

Ayoustin Aug 16, 2017 10:34 PM

Car is running. Getting the first 50 miles on it and then changing the oil. Shooting to get 500 in by friday but it'll be close.

Had to convert my tial q back to a qr to keep the maf happy since it was hanging open at idle. Other than that no issues. Always a good feeling :)

V.8MR Aug 17, 2017 08:38 PM

Man u work fast!

Ayoustin Aug 18, 2017 12:06 AM


Originally Posted by V.8MR (Post 11765910)
Man u work fast!

Haha, not fast enough honestly.


On my second oil change. Car has 160 city miles on, everyone seems determined to keep me from driving it though. Hoping to get converted over to speed density tomorrow. Driving down to St Louis this weekend and have an autox down there sunday so that will be the pilot test.

I'm really liking the comp stage 4 clutch. It's very grabby for a single disk but pedal effort is barely harder than the exedy stage 1 I just took out. Going to try to make it to a strip sometime next week to see how it handles launches on radials.

As for the balance shaft it's hard to say how much it increased nvh because I also swapped in the rear trans torque solutions mount. Vibes are definitely up from before but it's nothing harsh which leads me to think that most of the nvh increase is from the mount.

Overall I'm liking how things are shaping up. Mostly went together fairly smooth, no leaks, no start up problems other than the bov, first oil change looked pretty good (slight silver tint but no large flakes).

Ayoustin Aug 21, 2017 01:24 AM

And the engine is ****ed.

Got a little over 500 miles on it and threw E85 in. Drove it on some back roads saturday and the car felt great.

Took it to an autox earlier today/yesterday. My co-driver and I each got one run in without issue. Sometime during the 50 seconds or so during my second run the engine went from perfectly fine to HEAVY rod knock, didn't even hear it until I crossed the finish line. Trailered the car 5 hours home, just finished ripping the pan off. 1, 2 and 3 rod bearings are all damaged, I haven't pulled to rod caps off yet but there is tons of metal in the oil pan so I wouldn't be surprised if they spun.

This is probably going to be an early end of my season.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...22c427a02c.jpg

Eric SlowEvo8 Aug 21, 2017 05:40 AM

ouch sorry to hear that man

V.8MR Aug 21, 2017 07:37 AM

Damn, I'm sorry man...

LetsGetThisDone Aug 21, 2017 08:28 AM

Stock oil pan will do that to you. Sorry to hear.

Ayoustin Aug 21, 2017 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11766580)
Stock oil pan will do that to you. Sorry to hear.

I remember reading about that but I recall it being a left hand, high g issue. The course had no large left turns. I'm thinking the oil pump failed and dropped pressure. I can't think a couple seconds of starvation would wipe out 3 bearings at once and this fast, especially considering the car has been a used for track use for at least the past 6 years without issue.

I'm pretty bummed and with school starting up again next week and my money already stretched thin I'm going to have to throw it in my garage and let it sit until next year.

itsmyturn Aug 21, 2017 09:10 AM

Dang, that really sucks. How was the shifter during the autox?

LetsGetThisDone Aug 21, 2017 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by ayoustin (Post 11766598)
I remember reading about that but I recall it being a left hand, high g issue. The course had no large left turns. I'm thinking the oil pump failed and dropped pressure. I can't think a couple seconds of starvation would wipe out 3 bearings at once and this fast, especially considering the car has been a used for track use for at least the past 6 years without issue.

I'm pretty bummed and with school starting up again next week and my money already stretched thin I'm going to have to throw it in my garage and let it sit until next year.

It's right hand corners that cause the issue with oil starvation in the CT9a. So, if the course almost has no lefts... You'll pull it apart and find the oil pump damaged from the starvation as well.

Ayoustin Aug 21, 2017 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by itsmyturn (Post 11766604)
Dang, that really sucks. How was the shifter during the autox?

Shifter was great, still my favorite mod. Shifts are quick and you spend almost no time with my hand off the steering wheel with how short the reach is.



Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11766606)
It's right hand corners that cause the issue with oil starvation in the CT9a. So, if the course almost has no lefts... You'll pull it apart and find the oil pump damaged from the starvation as well.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. There were two right sweepers. But I still think it's the pump. I've taken harder right hand turns on track than that autox. I really would like to find the real cause as if it was starvation then I'm definitely getting a new pan or modifying mine. Unfortunately I don't think I'll see starvation in the pump with how much metal it's consumed.

LetsGetThisDone Aug 21, 2017 09:50 AM


Originally Posted by ayoustin (Post 11766621)
Shifter was great, still my favorite mod. Shifts are quick and you spend almost no time with my hand off the steering wheel with how short the reach is.




Ah, thanks for the clarification. There were two right sweepers. But I still think it's the pump. I've taken harder right hand turns on track than that autox. I really would like to find the real cause as if it was starvation then I'm definitely getting a new pan or modifying mine. Unfortunately I don't think I'll see starvation in the pump with how much metal it's consumed.


I would do a pan either way. It's a well documented/known issue for the platform.


Also, I want that shifter. Where can it be ordered from? Need to put it on the list.

Ayoustin Aug 21, 2017 10:14 AM


Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11766633)
I would do a pan either way. It's a well documented/known issue for the platform.


Also, I want that shifter. Where can it be ordered from? Need to put it on the list.

Yea I need to see what my best option would be. Not buying a pan for a while anyway.

The only vendor in the US that sells CAE shifters is Hard Motorsport. They're made to order in Germany so expect to wait at least a month to get it.

Ayoustin Aug 21, 2017 06:11 PM

Dropped the first three rod caps off. Damage is minimal, only a bit of light scoring on the crank, none of it catches a nail so it might polish out.

Pulled the valve cover and everything is spotless still, no debris even made it up there.

Pulled the timing cover to check the balance shaft. Spins over just as effortlessly as when I put the engine together.

I was fairly sure it was the balance shaft as there are chunks of brass in the oil pan and that would indicate bearing material and the rod bearings aren't damaged enough for it to be from them. I can't imagine the mains are damaged as I never touched them and the crank has no play to it.

I'm pretty sure there isn't brass in the oil pump so I'm feeling a bit clueless right now. I'm sure I'll find the answer after I dig into it a bit more.



Update: Dropped the 4 cap. Bearing spun. Crank will need to be ground. Rod will need to get chopped and honed.

So now that I know 4 is damaged this badly the question comes down to the root cause. Right now there are three/four possibilities I can think of but I have my doubts about each one:

1- The rods weren't assembled correctly. I doubt this because I cleaned everything prior to assembly, both the bearing surface and crank were lubricated with assembly lube. Rod bolts were torqued using a stretch gauge and their torque was double checked.

2- The rods were starved of oil going through a corner. I doubt this because the corners weren't very long and there wasn't any damage in the head which usually gets oil after the rods. Also there's no damage I can see to the mains, balance shaft or anywhere else that receives oil pressure.

3- The oil pump failed. I doubt this because it was perfectly fine before and I never touched it or the front case. I think opening the pump up might tell me more hopefully.

4- The rod bearings were defective/manufactured wrong. I doubt this because it's just very very unlikely. Unless I'm really just that unlucky.

The one thing I'm most unsure of that would definitely help to find out is if all the bearings were going out simultaneously and 4 went first or if 4 was the only one going and the debris from it caused the damage to the rest.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...58d544d276.jpg


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...36a04f3e55.jpg

LetsGetThisDone Aug 22, 2017 08:57 AM

I'll go with oil starvation. When oil pressure drops to 30psi (which happens almost instantly in hard right hand corners) and you get on the throttle, it makes for unhappy bottom end bearings.

Kevin Troy Aug 22, 2017 09:52 AM

very sorry to see that :eek:

Ayoustin Aug 22, 2017 10:35 AM

Considering oiling upgrades while I'm making my shopping list. Here's what I've found, what is your thoughts on these and what would you consider the most helpful/cost?

- Kiggly HLA
- ER oil pump underdrive pulley
- Tomei or Cosworth crank scraper
- Aftermarket pan (Racefab or self built)
- Aftermarket crank (better oil passage design?) Only throwing this one out there since the crank is damaged and if I decided to grind it it will probably need to be rehardened so it might be worth it to just get an aftermarket crank. Sticking with stock stroke so either Manley or Eagle. I've read that Manley forged cranks have issues cracking but that only seems to be with the 100mm stroke ones. Can't find much on 88mm stroke failures.

NJ9MR Aug 22, 2017 10:56 AM

Bummer! I had the oil starvation 'right hand turn Evo curse too'! Sorry to hear about yours!

LetsGetThisDone Aug 22, 2017 12:02 PM


Originally Posted by ayoustin (Post 11766978)
Considering oiling upgrades while I'm making my shopping list. Here's what I've found, what is your thoughts on these and what would you consider the most helpful/cost?

- Kiggly HLA
- ER oil pump underdrive pulley
- Tomei or Cosworth crank scraper
- Aftermarket pan (Racefab or self built)
- Aftermarket crank (better oil passage design?) Only throwing this one out there since the crank is damaged and if I decided to grind it it will probably need to be rehardened so it might be worth it to just get an aftermarket crank. Sticking with stock stroke so either Manley or Eagle. I've read that Manley forged cranks have issues cracking but that only seems to be with the 100mm stroke ones. Can't find much on 88mm stroke failures.


RS Motors had one fail. Stick with eagle (for forged) or stock. However, the stock crank is fine if you're sticking with stock stroke and can find a good OEM crank. So, the first 3 mods are what will get you the best results.

Eric SlowEvo8 Aug 22, 2017 01:22 PM

first 3 I agreee

Ayoustin Aug 22, 2017 01:27 PM


Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11767010)
RS Motors had one fail. Stick with eagle (for forged) or stock. However, the stock crank is fine if you're sticking with stock stroke and can find a good OEM crank. So, the first 3 mods are what will get you the best results.

Sounds like I'd be best sticking with stock crank. Probably going to pick up a Kiggly HLA and Tomei crank scraper. If I can fit it into the budget then I'll get the oil pump sprocket too. New front case and oil cooler are on the list as well.

V.8MR Aug 22, 2017 02:41 PM

I considered the oil pump sprocket too, but it seemed more drag oriented.

I have the Kig HLA
Tomei Baffle
GSC Balance Shaft
Racefab wetsump

Hoping its enough myself or may add a accusump later on.

deylag Aug 22, 2017 03:59 PM

Seems like crankwalk could be a possibility or an out of balance crank.

Ayoustin Aug 22, 2017 04:20 PM


Originally Posted by deylag (Post 11767053)
Seems like crankwalk could be a possibility or an out of balance crank.

I wouldn't think either of those very likely since I never pulled the crank out and it ran for over 100k without issue.

Kevin Troy Aug 22, 2017 09:32 PM


Originally Posted by ayoustin (Post 11766978)
Considering oiling upgrades while I'm making my shopping list. Here's what I've found, what is your thoughts on these and what would you consider the most helpful/cost?

- Kiggly HLA
- ER oil pump underdrive pulley
- Tomei or Cosworth crank scraper
- Aftermarket pan (Racefab or self built)
- Aftermarket crank (better oil passage design?) Only throwing this one out there since the crank is damaged and if I decided to grind it it will probably need to be rehardened so it might be worth it to just get an aftermarket crank. Sticking with stock stroke so either Manley or Eagle. I've read that Manley forged cranks have issues cracking but that only seems to be with the 100mm stroke ones. Can't find much on 88mm stroke failures.

agree, Kiggly HLA keeps much more oil in the pan than the OEM.
I got one myself {thumbup}

Ayoustin Sep 3, 2017 07:48 AM

Got the engine out and torn down earlier this week. Crank is at the machine shop. Looks like a .010" cut should clean it up.

After looking at the main bearings they told the whole story. 4 and 5 are showing some copper and counting back to 1 they progressively look better so starvation is definitely the culprit. Also makes sense since the 4 rod is the one that spun.

Should be ordering parts this week. And hopefully getting the crank back this week as well. Already washed out the block, going to pretty it up a tad and rewash it while I'm waiting on parts. And to hopefully avoid this from happening again I've decided to get the Kiggly HLA, Tomei crank scraper, send my pan to BR to get baffled and run a thicker oil. Also got a good deal on an AMS oil cooler so that should hopefully keep temps in check for hotter track days. Eventually I'll get a dry sump but that won't be for at least another year.

Damage to rod 4. Decided to just buy a new one.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...d960154b82.jpg

Main 1 vs 5. You can see 1 looks fairly healthy, most of the top layer is still there. 5 has none of the top layer left and copper is showing.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...16a14e5648.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...a07c91b283.jpg

Ayoustin Sep 6, 2017 06:51 PM

Flipped the balance shaft bearings today. Parts are on order. Crank is getting ground either tomorrow or Monday. After it's ground I'll order bearings. Flushed out the oil filter housing, there was a fair bit of debris in it. Going to wash the block one more time as well to be safe.

Shooting to have everything back together in the next two weeks if all goes well.

JoeyDc5 Sep 6, 2017 07:42 PM

Looks really badass :)

Code Monkey Sep 6, 2017 09:50 PM

Should have kept the Mazdaspeed6. :D

Ayoustin Sep 6, 2017 10:34 PM


Originally Posted by Code Monkey (Post 11770312)
Should have kept the Mazdaspeed6. :D

There will most likely be another one day. When I have the space haha.

LetsGetThisDone Sep 7, 2017 10:04 AM

What oil pan are you going to put on it?

Ayoustin Sep 7, 2017 11:29 AM


Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11770441)
What oil pan are you going to put on it?

Pan is going to BR to get their baffling put in around the pickup.

LetsGetThisDone Sep 7, 2017 12:15 PM

That pretty much does nothing. I high suggest going with a racefab pan.

Ayoustin Sep 7, 2017 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11770475)
That pretty much does nothing. I high suggest going with a racefab pan.

Do you have any evidence or links to threads of it not helping?

The baffle they weld in around the pickup is a pretty common design used on other engines, especially circle track cars. A $600 pan that I'll have to wait weeks or possibly months for is not in the budget or timeline.

LetsGetThisDone Sep 7, 2017 12:34 PM

The AMS pan doesn't even work well for turning. And it at least has trap doors and larger sump.


https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...-sump-pan.html

Ayoustin Sep 7, 2017 02:44 PM

Yea I've seen the racefab pan. It's a decent piece but like I said, I'm not spending $600 on a pan and have to wait who knows how long to get it to and from NZ.

The baffling that BR does is proven out well enough to at least be better than nothing and it doesn't cost much. Eventually it'll get a dry sump so I'd rather not spend money on a pan that won't be kept long term.

LetsGetThisDone Sep 7, 2017 03:48 PM

I can't seem to find the thread, but testing ahs been done and the Buschur pan drops oil pressure just as fast as stock when turning. It may help for drag racing, but it doesn't do anything for turning.
Post # 227:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...l#post11621632

Ayoustin Sep 10, 2017 08:44 AM

Replacement rod came in from Manley Friday and I got my AMS oil cooler yesterday morning and got it installed. I'm very happy with how well it fits and look forward to seeing how it handles hotter days.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...e70b41d947.jpg

Abacus Sep 10, 2017 01:31 PM

I'd second getting a racefab pan. It's been tested using big slicks and it's on a number of track cars . Added capacity , oil control and pickup moved. More capicity is also going to help with temperature control. Aside from adding an accusump or really fixing it with a dry dump it's the best option at this time.

Sure it's weeks away but cheap IMO compared to an engine ,oil cooler and labor.

Ayoustin Sep 10, 2017 02:26 PM

I trust you guys but I'll look into it a bit more. I haven't sent out the pan yet so I'll try to find more testing on it. Seeing as I'm trying to get at least one more track day in before the end of the season (most tracks up here close in October) I'm going to get an oil pressure gauge and if I see pressure falling off then I'll call it quits for the season and put a racefab pan on my to do list for the winter.

LetsGetThisDone Sep 12, 2017 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by ayoustin (Post 11771100)
I trust you guys but I'll look into it a bit more. I haven't sent out the pan yet so I'll try to find more testing on it. Seeing as I'm trying to get at least one more track day in before the end of the season (most tracks up here close in October) I'm going to get an oil pressure gauge and if I see pressure falling off then I'll call it quits for the season and put a racefab pan on my to do list for the winter.

All the more reason to have a proper oil pan.

V.8MR Sep 12, 2017 10:28 AM

Ive got a spare pan I can sell ya if u wana send it to RF. Local pickup!

Ayoustin Sep 12, 2017 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by V.8MR (Post 11771476)
Ive got a spare pan I can sell ya if u wana send it to RF. Local pickup!

Pm'd.


Got the crank back yesterday. Looks brand new, did take a .020" grind to get it fully cleaned up, a .010" cut just barely wasn't enough. Mains got a good polishing as well.

Ordering bearings soon. Hoping to have them by the end of the week so I can get the engine back together and in the car next week.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...a8748e6f0c.jpg


Something that caught my eye going through an oil pan thread was the pan that was put on outlanders that had a 4g63. It looks like s slightly taller oil pan and the lower sump seems like it might be a bit better than ours. Still has provisions for oil drain from the turbo. What I really like about it is how easy it would be to make a new lower section with better baffling/trap doors. Unfortunately I'm having a tough time finding one of these pans.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...dc3aa2e1d4.jpg


Thread: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ressure-6.html



Also got a bit bored yesterday so I made a new cam sensor cover. Going to test fit it when I get home and it's all good then going to cut one out on a router or mill.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...a3de52453e.jpg


Edit: Fits pretty good. Time to move to metal.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...744d67f3fc.jpg

Ayoustin Sep 12, 2017 08:22 PM

Just found out there's a hill climb in Empire MI this Saturday. It's a very short hill climb, less than a mile long and it's only about two hours away from me. Pretty sad as it would've been a great event for me to cut my teeth and start to get into hill climbs :(

Ayoustin Sep 20, 2017 11:03 AM

Printed a bracket to mount a catch can behind the driver's headlight. I'm happy with the fitment, working on toolpaths now to cut it out on a mill. Going to run a line from the balance shaft inspection hole and vta the can. I haven't seen any pcv related issues as is but more crankcase venting won't hurt anything.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...204b542af.jpeg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.evo...9f7739a1f.jpeg

Eric SlowEvo8 Sep 20, 2017 11:10 AM

nice

LetsGetThisDone Sep 20, 2017 11:55 AM

You're going to get a boat load of oil out of the balance shaft port. I wouldn't do that. If you have enlarge the valve cover ports, I would do that first.

Ayoustin Sep 20, 2017 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11773215)
You're going to get a boat load of oil out of the balance shaft port. I wouldn't do that. If you have enlarge the valve cover ports, I would do that first.

That did occur to me as a possibility. I'm going to see how it does. If the can fills up quickly then I'll change it up.

Like I said I'm not having any issues with the pcv system as is, which is pretty much stock, but more vents won't hurt. The catch can was free and everything other than the block fitting I already had laying around so it's not costing me much at all to give this a shot.

Ayoustin Sep 25, 2017 12:51 PM

Engine is all back together. Getting it mated to the trans tonight and dropping it back in tomorrow if I can find the time.

LetsGetThisDone Sep 25, 2017 03:47 PM

badass. Good luck. I hope it stay together this time :)

Ayoustin Sep 27, 2017 02:33 AM

Car is about done, just have some little things left to do. Decided to work through the night and went from an engine on a stand to in the car ready to run in a little over 12 hours. Got the dash back in and it's ready for some new gauges that I ordered. Unfortunately I had a bit of a mishap with getting the driver's side inner axle stub back in and the splines have been messed up pretty good by the circlip. Trying to source one local so I can have the car ready for this weekend to give it a shakedown.

LetsGetThisDone Sep 27, 2017 07:38 AM

I've done that before. Usually happens because the hog ring somehow gets expanded, then gets folded over the shaft. Makes hard to get back out too. Big PITA.

Ayoustin Sep 27, 2017 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone (Post 11774671)
I've done that before. Usually happens because the hog ring somehow gets expanded, then gets folded over the shaft. Makes hard to get back out too. Big PITA.

That's exactly what happened. Circlip mushroomed a couple splines together. I took a peek into the diff and I don't see any damage to those splines fortunately.

Just ordered up an axle and two new circlips from a local dealer. Told them to next day ship it so it'll hopefully be in tomorrow for pickup.

Bato Sep 27, 2017 08:00 AM

Gotta love the usual "you weren't broke when I removed you but I'll be damned you are now" reassembly drama. Been there to many times.

Hope the shake down goes well, loving the build.

LetsGetThisDone Sep 28, 2017 08:04 AM

Protip- the new shaft comes with new hog rings already on it. :)


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