MAP intake manifolds and Mil.Spec throttle body reviews
Feb 12, 2009, 06:49 PM
#1
MAP intake manifolds and Mil.Spec throttle body reviews
Mil.Spec 65mm ported throttle body:
After running into issue after issue with a billet 68mm newcomer to the Evo throttle body market, I contacted Aby and Erik at Mil.Spec (late Saturday night), heard back from them on Sunday, ordered it through Modern Automotive Performance, and had the throttle body on Wednesday. I've been incredibly impressed with their professionalism, quality of workmanship, and promptness of shipping. When it arrived it was in perfect condition and came with a machined OEM Mitsu gasket. It was a very simple bolt-in affair, especially since the TPS was already calibrated to spec. The car started up, ran, and idled perfectly. We strapped the car down on the dyno and I picked up 3whp and 15 ft lbs of tq over the stock throttle body on the MAP v3 manifold discussed below. These numbers don't tell the whole story though since they are peak numbers and the ported throttle body does flow more in the upper RPM's. Overall, I'm very impressed considering this was a last ditch effort to squeeze a little more power from my maxed out stock turbo/stock ECU/pump gas setup. I also took the opportunity to bypass the throttle body coolant lines to help keep the intake air cooler.
MAP ported/modified intake manifolds:
MAP is now making 3 different versions of the stock intake manifold; all can be machined for a stock or larger aftermarket throttle body. The v1, v2, and the v3. The v1 is your basic ported/gasket matched intake manifold. The v2 goes one step further and they're able to port the entire length of the runner and do some minor port work inside the plenum. Things start to get pretty wild with the v3 when they cut the plenum open, work their magic on it, then weld it back together. I'll let them post the specifics in a few days when they announce the manifolds publicly, but I will say that flowbench testing confirms higher flow and better runner balance. I ended up with the v3 on my car since it showed the best gains (obviously), and I had them use heat-reflective coating on the head flange and a semi-gloss black heat dispersant coating on the manifolds exterior. I also used a heat-barrier spacer gasket. With all these options the manifold stays cool to the touch no matter how hard its driven or how many dyno pulls are done back-to-back. On to the results!
Please keep in mind my stock turbo/stock ECU/pump gas setup is maxed out so any gains were very welcome.
-Version 1 basic ported manifold: 2whp peak gains and a power curve identical to stock.
-Version 2 fully ported manifold: 3whp peak power gains, but +36wtq/+27whp @ 4000rpm and 25+ whp gains above 7,000 RPM!
-Version 3 max modified manifold: 3whp peak power gains, but +47wtq/+35whp @ 3800rpm and 25+ whp gains above 7,000 RPM with an additional gain of 10 ft lbs of torque in the peak powerband!
All said and done I'm very happy I had the opportunity to work with MAP and test these products. I also took the opportunity to remove a lot of the emissions systems including a STM EGR block-off plate which is also a very sexy piece with recessed hex bolts for a sleeker look (because I'm a ricer like that).
After running into issue after issue with a billet 68mm newcomer to the Evo throttle body market, I contacted Aby and Erik at Mil.Spec (late Saturday night), heard back from them on Sunday, ordered it through Modern Automotive Performance, and had the throttle body on Wednesday. I've been incredibly impressed with their professionalism, quality of workmanship, and promptness of shipping. When it arrived it was in perfect condition and came with a machined OEM Mitsu gasket. It was a very simple bolt-in affair, especially since the TPS was already calibrated to spec. The car started up, ran, and idled perfectly. We strapped the car down on the dyno and I picked up 3whp and 15 ft lbs of tq over the stock throttle body on the MAP v3 manifold discussed below. These numbers don't tell the whole story though since they are peak numbers and the ported throttle body does flow more in the upper RPM's. Overall, I'm very impressed considering this was a last ditch effort to squeeze a little more power from my maxed out stock turbo/stock ECU/pump gas setup. I also took the opportunity to bypass the throttle body coolant lines to help keep the intake air cooler.
MAP ported/modified intake manifolds:
MAP is now making 3 different versions of the stock intake manifold; all can be machined for a stock or larger aftermarket throttle body. The v1, v2, and the v3. The v1 is your basic ported/gasket matched intake manifold. The v2 goes one step further and they're able to port the entire length of the runner and do some minor port work inside the plenum. Things start to get pretty wild with the v3 when they cut the plenum open, work their magic on it, then weld it back together. I'll let them post the specifics in a few days when they announce the manifolds publicly, but I will say that flowbench testing confirms higher flow and better runner balance. I ended up with the v3 on my car since it showed the best gains (obviously), and I had them use heat-reflective coating on the head flange and a semi-gloss black heat dispersant coating on the manifolds exterior. I also used a heat-barrier spacer gasket. With all these options the manifold stays cool to the touch no matter how hard its driven or how many dyno pulls are done back-to-back. On to the results!
Please keep in mind my stock turbo/stock ECU/pump gas setup is maxed out so any gains were very welcome.
-Version 1 basic ported manifold: 2whp peak gains and a power curve identical to stock.
-Version 2 fully ported manifold: 3whp peak power gains, but +36wtq/+27whp @ 4000rpm and 25+ whp gains above 7,000 RPM!
-Version 3 max modified manifold: 3whp peak power gains, but +47wtq/+35whp @ 3800rpm and 25+ whp gains above 7,000 RPM with an additional gain of 10 ft lbs of torque in the peak powerband!
All said and done I'm very happy I had the opportunity to work with MAP and test these products. I also took the opportunity to remove a lot of the emissions systems including a STM EGR block-off plate which is also a very sexy piece with recessed hex bolts for a sleeker look (because I'm a ricer like that).
Last edited by Kracka; Feb 14, 2009 at 06:03 AM.
Feb 12, 2009, 07:07 PM
#3
MAP should be announcing their pricing tomorrow, but from what I know so far it will be VERY affordable compared to the Wilson and the quality of porting/machining is the best I've ever seen. As a note though, I have never seen a Wilson manifold in person so please don't ask me to compare it against the MAP v3. All I can say is the MAP v3 is built with excellent craftsmanship and showed great gains in the upper RPM range!
Last edited by Kracka; Feb 12, 2009 at 07:28 PM.
Feb 12, 2009, 08:55 PM
#7
Hi S2kraker,
Some very nice gains on the v3, congrats mate. Your engine bay looks nice & clean with the black theme on the UICP, IM & Perrin filter. Aby & Eric have a nice 65mm TB & they have a great rap from many users out there. They are certainly on my list as a must have TB when the funds come along, IM wise it's good to see another option with the OEM IM, well done MAP.
A little different name wouldn't have gone a stray as you'll have quite a few mentioning W----- no doubt. Hopefully the price is a little different than the W----- pieces & I'm sure these may do rather well with sales.
Nice work lately S2cracker with the filters & now these....I applaud your efforts mate.
Just quickly, have you had any heat soak with your Perrin IC & did you pick up any power? Is there more room for tuning eg with less knock from the Perrin & was there a increase in boost just from installing it?
Back OT are the power & torque graphs going to be posted once the official announcement happens?
Thanks again for the write up mate.
Regards Steve
Some very nice gains on the v3, congrats mate. Your engine bay looks nice & clean with the black theme on the UICP, IM & Perrin filter. Aby & Eric have a nice 65mm TB & they have a great rap from many users out there. They are certainly on my list as a must have TB when the funds come along, IM wise it's good to see another option with the OEM IM, well done MAP.
A little different name wouldn't have gone a stray as you'll have quite a few mentioning W----- no doubt. Hopefully the price is a little different than the W----- pieces & I'm sure these may do rather well with sales.
Nice work lately S2cracker with the filters & now these....I applaud your efforts mate.
Just quickly, have you had any heat soak with your Perrin IC & did you pick up any power? Is there more room for tuning eg with less knock from the Perrin & was there a increase in boost just from installing it? Back OT are the power & torque graphs going to be posted once the official announcement happens?
Thanks again for the write up mate.
Regards Steve
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Feb 12, 2009, 09:24 PM
#8
MAP should be posting the dyno charts, I just don't have them on my laptop. Thanks for all the kind words!
Regarding the Perrin FMIC, I have had no issues with it and its been working very well for me. I did show gains with it. If you search around I have a full review thread for it and the Nisei pipes. Since I have ECU controlled boost (GM BCS) I can't say if I personally saw a increase in boost, but I did notice quicker spool. My friend who also got the Perrin also noticed quicker spool and a few extra lbs of boost after adding the FMIC; he turned it back down with his MBC though since he was tuned for 25.
Regarding the Perrin FMIC, I have had no issues with it and its been working very well for me. I did show gains with it. If you search around I have a full review thread for it and the Nisei pipes. Since I have ECU controlled boost (GM BCS) I can't say if I personally saw a increase in boost, but I did notice quicker spool. My friend who also got the Perrin also noticed quicker spool and a few extra lbs of boost after adding the FMIC; he turned it back down with his MBC though since he was tuned for 25.
Feb 13, 2009, 07:36 AM
#11
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S2Kracka's friend here...
I am quite happy with my perrin intercooler. I noticed faster spool and I immediatly had to turn my boost down so it certiany flows better than the stock. Considnering the price and quality of the build I'd say it is one of the better buys.
Last time my car was on the dyno I lost a bit of power, however it was only on the dyno to fix some injecotr issues I had. Before the intercooler install I had to pull a bunch of upper RPM timing on the street to avoid knock. I was able to add that back now without any issues.
Anyway, a bit more on-topic...I was present for most of the testing. The port work done on this manifold is fantastic and the coatings are super nice also. I was a bit dissapointed with the gains on the stock turbo, but as Kracka already pointed out his set-up is pretty much maxed out. With a BBK, FP Green, or FP Red I'd imagine the gains would be much more noticable.
I am quite happy with my perrin intercooler. I noticed faster spool and I immediatly had to turn my boost down so it certiany flows better than the stock. Considnering the price and quality of the build I'd say it is one of the better buys.
Last time my car was on the dyno I lost a bit of power, however it was only on the dyno to fix some injecotr issues I had. Before the intercooler install I had to pull a bunch of upper RPM timing on the street to avoid knock. I was able to add that back now without any issues.
Anyway, a bit more on-topic...I was present for most of the testing. The port work done on this manifold is fantastic and the coatings are super nice also. I was a bit dissapointed with the gains on the stock turbo, but as Kracka already pointed out his set-up is pretty much maxed out. With a BBK, FP Green, or FP Red I'd imagine the gains would be much more noticable.
Feb 13, 2009, 08:16 AM
#13
Here is the flowbench data for the stock and MAP v3 manifolds. The stock manifold is from a VIII RS. The v3 was that same stock manifold after modification/porting/machining.
Stock:
runner #1: 267.8 CFM, -9.22% imbalance
runner #2: 272.0 CFM, -7.80% imbalance
runner #3: 286.0 CFM, -3.05% imbalance
runner #4: 295.0 CFM, -0.00% imbalance
v3:
runner #1: 278.8 CFM, 4.11% flow increase, -7.04% imbalance, 31.05% balance increase
runner #2: 278.8 CFM, 2.50% flow increase, -7.04% imbalance, 10.82% balance increase
runner #3: 290.8 CFM, 1.68% flow increase, -3.03% imbalance, 00.54% balance increase
runner #4: 299.9 CFM, 1.66% flow increase, -0.00% imbalance, 00.00% balance increase
Stock:
runner #1: 267.8 CFM, -9.22% imbalance
runner #2: 272.0 CFM, -7.80% imbalance
runner #3: 286.0 CFM, -3.05% imbalance
runner #4: 295.0 CFM, -0.00% imbalance
v3:
runner #1: 278.8 CFM, 4.11% flow increase, -7.04% imbalance, 31.05% balance increase
runner #2: 278.8 CFM, 2.50% flow increase, -7.04% imbalance, 10.82% balance increase
runner #3: 290.8 CFM, 1.68% flow increase, -3.03% imbalance, 00.54% balance increase
runner #4: 299.9 CFM, 1.66% flow increase, -0.00% imbalance, 00.00% balance increase
Feb 13, 2009, 05:07 PM
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Okay so im going to try and get technical is a nice way. What kind of flow bench was used to get those cfm ratings. At what suction "pressure" what ever you prefer were they flowed at.
Have you changed runner length at all on any of the runners? How about Plenum volume. If so how much did you change it and what is the runner length and plenum volume now? Did you play with any different degree of the ports going into the cylinder head face?
Just curious.
Thanks
Chris
Have you changed runner length at all on any of the runners? How about Plenum volume. If so how much did you change it and what is the runner length and plenum volume now? Did you play with any different degree of the ports going into the cylinder head face?
Just curious.
Thanks
Chris