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-   -   It Isn't Easy Being a Tuner - Especially a Good One (https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/vishnu-performance-california/113531-isnt-easy-being-tuner-especially-good-one.html)

Ted B Dec 15, 2004 09:08 PM

It Isn't Easy Being a Tuner - Especially a Good One
 
For the past ten years, I've reprogrammed ECUs for the Ford Taurus SHO. Having been quite successful and amassed considerable notariety in that particular realm, I've been flown to dyno day tuning events, invited to give performance seminars on tuning strategy, written articles and a book, etc., and so forth. IN that regard, I've probably learned at least as much as I've taught.

During that time, I've been asked to program ECUs for a variety of challenging combinations, including supercharged, turbocharged, and N2O charged SHO engines in various vehicles and configurations. In some cases, we are talking about a considerable amount of power, all with an engine that was not designed to be fitted with a power added.

Inevitably, when asking an engine to make increasing amounts of power, especially with a relatively new platform, the sheer chance for parts breakage increases proportionally with the amount of power extracted from the setup. I've witnessed sporadic failures caused by fuel pressure anomalies, spun rod bearings, failed pistons, wiped out cams, and all sorts of other things. In each case, it was very easy to point the finger at the tuner. In each case however, it was clearly determined that the ECU tuning had nothing to do with the problem that caused the failure.

We live in a society that loves to blame others for the course of our own decisions. Upgrading your engine to make more power is not within the intended design. Therefore, we (the owners) are the only ones that are ultimately responsible for the fate of our decisions. Obviously we aren't talking about plainly blatant blunders, but where the owner of a car asks a tuner to perform a service, and the tuner does so in good faith, the tuner has fulfilled his end of the contract.

That being said, like selecting a good surgeon, dentist, tailor, or any professional that performs a potentially hazardous service, realize that while what good tuners do is based upon sound science, there always exists an element of possiblity, no matter how small, that things may not work out as hoped due to a small element that is invisible to all and beyond our control.

Dustin@Vishnu Dec 15, 2004 10:26 PM

Your tellin me!

"He looks like a kid playing with a new toy" -shiv (talking about me on the dyno tonight.)

Dustin@Vishnu Dec 15, 2004 10:28 PM

BTW, for anyone wondering....my car ran out of gas after 30-some odd runs. So no end result just yet.

wilson1 Dec 15, 2004 10:30 PM

Hey dustin,

Did you get my tel call and pm?
I need my Dp back.

Wilson

Dustin@Vishnu Dec 15, 2004 10:31 PM

Your first on my call list tomorrow...AIMing you now.

wilson1 Dec 15, 2004 10:32 PM


Originally Posted by Dustin@Vishnu
Your first on my call list tomorrow...AIMing you now.


Thanks Dustin!

Smogrunner Dec 16, 2004 06:10 AM

Ted B rocks.

jamevo8 Dec 16, 2004 07:28 AM

Anyone at Vishnu, can you PLEASE let me know what the status of my aux fuel cell is????

Thanks, Jeff Malec

Ludikraut Dec 16, 2004 07:31 AM

{offtopic}

Hey Ted, SHOs used to be all I drove ... let me ask you a question. Rumor had it that Yamaha originally delivered the 6 cyl. SHO engine making 300HP (instead of the detuned 220HP it ended up making in the production car) ... was that true? just curious.

l8r)

Eric Lyublinsky Dec 16, 2004 07:40 AM


Originally Posted by Ted B
For the past ten years, I've reprogrammed ECUs for the Ford Taurus SHO. Having been quite successful and amassed considerable notariety in that particular realm, I've been flown to dyno day tuning events, invited to give performance seminars on tuning strategy, written articles and a book, etc., and so forth. IN that regard, I've probably learned at least as much as I've taught.

During that time, I've been asked to program ECUs for a variety of challenging combinations, including supercharged, turbocharged, and N2O charged SHO engines in various vehicles and configurations. In some cases, we are talking about a considerable amount of power, all with an engine that was not designed to be fitted with a power added.

Inevitably, when asking an engine to make increasing amounts of power, especially with a relatively new platform, the sheer chance for parts breakage increases proportionally with the amount of power extracted from the setup. I've witnessed sporadic failures caused by fuel pressure anomalies, spun rod bearings, failed pistons, wiped out cams, and all sorts of other things. In each case, it was very easy to point the finger at the tuner. In each case however, it was clearly determined that the ECU tuning had nothing to do with the problem that caused the failure.

We live in a society that loves to blame others for the course of our own decisions. Upgrading your engine to make more power is not within the intended design. Therefore, we (the owners) are the only ones that are ultimately responsible for the fate of our decisions. Obviously we aren't talking about plainly blatant blunders, but where the owner of a car asks a tuner to perform a service, and the tuner does so in good faith, the tuner has fulfilled his end of the contract.

That being said, like selecting a good surgeon, dentist, tailor, or any professional that performs a potentially hazardous service, realize that while what good tuners do is based upon sound science, there always exists an element of possiblity, no matter how small, that things may not work out as hoped due to a small element that is invisible to all and beyond our control.

That's a great post.... well writen....

robert5995 Dec 16, 2004 08:32 AM

Ted B - It's great to have someone here speaking a truth which is based on direct, personal experience. Thanks, Ted. {thumbup}

To All: What Ted B said applies to Evos as well as Taurus's. As soon as you change something from the manufacturer's configuration, the responsibility for the integrity of the drivetrain now falls on your shoulders.

NewOrleansGuy Dec 16, 2004 09:38 AM

Hey Ted....You picked up that daily driver yet and if so which did you choose?

Joey

Ted B Dec 16, 2004 10:01 AM


Originally Posted by Ludikraut
Hey Ted, SHOs used to be all I drove ... let me ask you a question. Rumor had it that Yamaha originally delivered the 6 cyl. SHO engine making 300HP (instead of the detuned 220HP it ended up making in the production car) ... was that true? just curious.

The original Yamaha configuration was programmed differently, had different cams, and made 300hp on the engine dyno with a set of headers.

Ford didn't want to outclass the Mustang with a 300hp sedan, and subsequently detuned it, saddled it with a crappy exhaust system, and still managed to get 220hp.



Originally Posted by NewOrleansGuy
Hey Ted....You picked up that daily driver yet and if so which did you choose?

The GN deal began looking very flaky, so I snapped the '86 SVO Mustang. I'm presently getting it sorted as it begins its journey to '400hp land'.

MBGSTI Dec 16, 2004 10:04 AM

[QUOTE=Ted B]

Inevitably, when asking an engine to make increasing amounts of power, especially with a relatively new platform, the sheer chance for parts breakage increases proportionally with the amount of power extracted from the setup. I've witnessed sporadic failures caused by fuel pressure anomalies, spun rod bearings, failed pistons, wiped out cams, and all sorts of other things. In each case, it was very easy to point the finger at the tuner. In each case however, it was clearly determined that the ECU tuning had nothing to do with the problem that caused the failure.

QUOTE]
I was a Vishnu groupie like many of U...I told Shiv to push my car..i knew that prehaps the motor may not hold forever with that race tune....with his tuning it didn't last one good 1/4 mile pass.
Thats not the point.
First Vishnu said i tried to Extort them : LIE
They left that and are now tryying to say i'm a bad sport, becuase of the motor failure...not true.
The motor gettin a full redo and a upgraded turbo soon...its not a issue of money for me.
Its a issue of bad customer service.
What made things go south is the Lies and and arrogance of SHIV.

Good luck to the rest of u guys...

tokeone Dec 16, 2004 10:07 AM


That being said, like selecting a good surgeon, dentist, tailor, or any professional that performs a potentially hazardous service, realize that while what good tuners do is based upon sound science, there always exists an element of possiblity, no matter how small, that things may not work out as hoped due to a small element that is invisible to all and beyond our control.
this ruined your entire post based on the simple fact that if any of those said professionals in anyway peformed their duty in a manner that resulted in failure they would be sued and possibly lose their licensing. thats why they all (aside from tailors of course) are mandated to have costly insurance.


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