Intercooler Size with Lots of Meth
EvoM Guru
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From: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
The Buschur unit has *more* pressure drop than stock? I would have thought it would be the opposite.
From the first post in this thread first. Our race core and our standard core have MUCH LESS pressure drop than stock. Not sure where the misinformation about them having more than stock came from. They do weigh more than stock.
I did not log boost or AFR's on those dyno runs, the car had an AEM EMS on it with datalogging, when I tune with AEM's I usually do not hook the AFR/boost up on the dyno, no need for it.
Yes, the car would duplicate those again. Nothing at all was changed other than the FMIC's. The car spooled faster and had more boost from going to the race core, this came from less pressure drop and cooler AIT's.
I don't remember if the car had alky or not. I seem to recall it being race gas but I do not remember. It it had alky, because he is our customer, it would be straight meth, NO WATER and a small nozzle in an SMC kit.
I did not log boost or AFR's on those dyno runs, the car had an AEM EMS on it with datalogging, when I tune with AEM's I usually do not hook the AFR/boost up on the dyno, no need for it.
Yes, the car would duplicate those again. Nothing at all was changed other than the FMIC's. The car spooled faster and had more boost from going to the race core, this came from less pressure drop and cooler AIT's.
I don't remember if the car had alky or not. I seem to recall it being race gas but I do not remember. It it had alky, because he is our customer, it would be straight meth, NO WATER and a small nozzle in an SMC kit.
From the first post in this thread first. Our race core and our standard core have MUCH LESS pressure drop than stock. Not sure where the misinformation about them having more than stock came from. They do weigh more than stock.
I did not log boost or AFR's on those dyno runs, the car had an AEM EMS on it with datalogging, when I tune with AEM's I usually do not hook the AFR/boost up on the dyno, no need for it.
Yes, the car would duplicate those again. Nothing at all was changed other than the FMIC's. The car spooled faster and had more boost from going to the race core, this came from less pressure drop and cooler AIT's.
I don't remember if the car had alky or not. I seem to recall it being race gas but I do not remember. It it had alky, because he is our customer, it would be straight meth, NO WATER and a small nozzle in an SMC kit.
I did not log boost or AFR's on those dyno runs, the car had an AEM EMS on it with datalogging, when I tune with AEM's I usually do not hook the AFR/boost up on the dyno, no need for it.
Yes, the car would duplicate those again. Nothing at all was changed other than the FMIC's. The car spooled faster and had more boost from going to the race core, this came from less pressure drop and cooler AIT's.
I don't remember if the car had alky or not. I seem to recall it being race gas but I do not remember. It it had alky, because he is our customer, it would be straight meth, NO WATER and a small nozzle in an SMC kit.
I have notice recently when tuning a Gt37 equiped car with two large alchy nozzels on pump gas that rising air intake temps resulted in pre-ignituion despite the spraying of huge amounts of alcohol.
I would like to study and test just how much the injection of alcohol redcuces actual air intake temps right before the intake valve.
I would assert that the larger a fmic you can get the coldest possible intake charge.
I would suggest to the OP that the optimal situation is a colder than ambient intake charge to that extent having a more efficient fmic with less pressure drop and colder charge temps will aide you to make more power.
Al
From the first post in this thread first. Our race core and our standard core have MUCH LESS pressure drop than stock. Not sure where the misinformation about them having more than stock came from. They do weigh more than stock.
I did not log boost or AFR's on those dyno runs, the car had an AEM EMS on it with datalogging, when I tune with AEM's I usually do not hook the AFR/boost up on the dyno, no need for it.
Yes, the car would duplicate those again. Nothing at all was changed other than the FMIC's. The car spooled faster and had more boost from going to the race core, this came from less pressure drop and cooler AIT's.
I don't remember if the car had alky or not. I seem to recall it being race gas but I do not remember. It it had alky, because he is our customer, it would be straight meth, NO WATER and a small nozzle in an SMC kit.
I did not log boost or AFR's on those dyno runs, the car had an AEM EMS on it with datalogging, when I tune with AEM's I usually do not hook the AFR/boost up on the dyno, no need for it.
Yes, the car would duplicate those again. Nothing at all was changed other than the FMIC's. The car spooled faster and had more boost from going to the race core, this came from less pressure drop and cooler AIT's.
I don't remember if the car had alky or not. I seem to recall it being race gas but I do not remember. It it had alky, because he is our customer, it would be straight meth, NO WATER and a small nozzle in an SMC kit.
I have been nothing but super satisfied with my RACE core and I think it is a really great unit.
The dyno plot you posted certainly shows the gains that the RACE core can have, but I wonder what effect it might have on a car running much larger nozzles and also some water which would cool better than methanol.
Thanks for the info.
I have notice recently when tuning a Gt37 equiped car with two large alchy nozzels on pump gas that rising air intake temps resulted in pre-ignituion despite the spraying of huge amounts of alcohol.
I would like to study and test just how much the injection of alcohol redcuces actual air intake temps right before the intake valve.
I would assert that the larger a fmic you can get the coldest possible intake charge.
I would suggest to the OP that the optimal situation is a colder than ambient intake charge to that extent having a more efficient fmic with less pressure drop and colder charge temps will aide you to make more power.
Al
I would like to study and test just how much the injection of alcohol redcuces actual air intake temps right before the intake valve.
I would assert that the larger a fmic you can get the coldest possible intake charge.
I would suggest to the OP that the optimal situation is a colder than ambient intake charge to that extent having a more efficient fmic with less pressure drop and colder charge temps will aide you to make more power.
Al
Also I wonder how much heat a gt37 creates compared to a stock turbo which is being pushed to its limits.
Another important thing to remember is that coldest is not always best for intake temps. Don't get me wrong, typically the quest is for the coolest possible intake air temps but there is such a thing as having intake air temps which are too low.
With a super large and efficient IC and tons of meth there is the possibility of too low intake temps.
I think testing with several IAT sensors is required to really make an informed decision.
Another important thing to remember is that coldest is not always best for intake temps. Don't get me wrong, typically the quest is for the coolest possible intake air temps but there is such a thing as having intake air temps which are too low.
With a super large and efficient IC and tons of meth there is the possibility of too low intake temps.
.
With a super large and efficient IC and tons of meth there is the possibility of too low intake temps.
.
I disagree with your suggestion.
There are ONLY 4 ways to make power in an engine which is effectively a complex air pump. The more air you can pump the more fuel you can burn and the more BTU's that can be harnessed to rotational energy.
To review the ways are
1 - More Displacement
2 - More RPMS
3 - Enhancements in VE (volumetric efficiency) this means fully filling the combusion chamber with a fresh charge on each intake stroke. The closer to 100% VE the better. Porting, polishing, head work, exhuast flow all effect VE.
4 - DENISTY OF INTAKE CHARGE - This can be effected two ways - pressurization and coolling.
Therefore, all other factors being equal the more densly packed your air charge the closer the oxygen molecules are. Given that your clyinder has only a given volume, the more dense your intake charge the more oxygen molecules that you will have in each combusion cylce and the more fuel you will be able to burn.
For this and many other reasons, it is a fact that you can never have too cold of an intake charge on a turbo charged motor.
Another factor to consider, the stock turbo can be run in a highly inefficent manner well out of its optimal efficiency range very easily in which case it has the potential to heat the air it is compressing much more than on the marger GT37 turbo. We call this the hair dryer effect.
All things being equal a larger turbo will more efficiently pressurize air at a cooler discharge temp than a smaller turbo - (at the expense of reduced turbo response - LAG)
In a turbo you want to select a turbo which can achive your desired air flow and pressure ratio while keeping the diacharge temp as cold as possible
In a fmic, you want your outlet temps as close to ambient air temp as possible
To sumarize, the colder your charge temps the denser the air and the more fuel you can burn at an optimal ratio which which will make more thermal heat energy - this means more power
I would like to hear your reasons for feeling that an intake charge can be too cold, I would be interested to hear what your theory is on that.
All the best
AL
I disagree with your suggestion.
There are ONLY 4 ways to make power in an engine which is effectively a complex air pump. The more air you can pump the more fuel you can burn and the more BTU's that can be harnessed to rotational energy.
To review the ways are
1 - More Displacement
2 - More RPMS
3 - Enhancements in VE (volumetric efficiency) this means fully filling the combusion chamber with a fresh charge on each intake stroke. The closer to 100% VE the better. Porting, polishing, head work, exhuast flow all effect VE.
4 - DENISTY OF INTAKE CHARGE - This can be effected two ways - pressurization and coolling.
Therefore, all other factors being equal the more densly packed your air charge the closer the oxygen molecules are. Given that your clyinder has only a given volume, the more dense your intake charge the more oxygen molecules that you will have in each combusion cylce and the more fuel you will be able to burn.
For this and many other reasons, it is a fact that you can never have too cold of an intake charge on a turbo charged motor.
Another factor to consider, the stock turbo can be run in a highly inefficent manner well out of its optimal efficiency range very easily in which case it has the potential to heat the air it is compressing much more than on the marger GT37 turbo. We call this the hair dryer effect.
All things being equal a larger turbo will more efficiently pressurize air at a cooler discharge temp than a smaller turbo - (at the expense of reduced turbo response - LAG)
In a turbo you want to select a turbo which can achive your desired air flow and pressure ratio while keeping the diacharge temp as cold as possible
In a fmic, you want your outlet temps as close to ambient air temp as possible
To sumarize, the colder your charge temps the denser the air and the more fuel you can burn at an optimal ratio which which will make more thermal heat energy - this means more power
I would like to hear your reasons for feeling that an intake charge can be too cold, I would be interested to hear what your theory is on that.
All the best
AL
There are ONLY 4 ways to make power in an engine which is effectively a complex air pump. The more air you can pump the more fuel you can burn and the more BTU's that can be harnessed to rotational energy.
To review the ways are
1 - More Displacement
2 - More RPMS
3 - Enhancements in VE (volumetric efficiency) this means fully filling the combusion chamber with a fresh charge on each intake stroke. The closer to 100% VE the better. Porting, polishing, head work, exhuast flow all effect VE.
4 - DENISTY OF INTAKE CHARGE - This can be effected two ways - pressurization and coolling.
Therefore, all other factors being equal the more densly packed your air charge the closer the oxygen molecules are. Given that your clyinder has only a given volume, the more dense your intake charge the more oxygen molecules that you will have in each combusion cylce and the more fuel you will be able to burn.
For this and many other reasons, it is a fact that you can never have too cold of an intake charge on a turbo charged motor.
Another factor to consider, the stock turbo can be run in a highly inefficent manner well out of its optimal efficiency range very easily in which case it has the potential to heat the air it is compressing much more than on the marger GT37 turbo. We call this the hair dryer effect.
All things being equal a larger turbo will more efficiently pressurize air at a cooler discharge temp than a smaller turbo - (at the expense of reduced turbo response - LAG)
In a turbo you want to select a turbo which can achive your desired air flow and pressure ratio while keeping the diacharge temp as cold as possible
In a fmic, you want your outlet temps as close to ambient air temp as possible
To sumarize, the colder your charge temps the denser the air and the more fuel you can burn at an optimal ratio which which will make more thermal heat energy - this means more power
I would like to hear your reasons for feeling that an intake charge can be too cold, I would be interested to hear what your theory is on that.
All the best
AL
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=559
Here is some really great data, but take a look at the second post where John mentions that intake temps being too cold may effect the ability for fuel to properly atomize.
I will try to research this concept more to see if it is a valid concern.
