reliable easy to tune ethanol injection is best way to go
Feb 3, 2014, 10:24 PM
#34
yes its still two injectors. its working too good to mess with. it is interfaced with stock ECU. ECMLINK. but I dont use two maps. it only needs one map IMHO. you could make it dual map but I cant think of a reason why one would want to.
Feb 5, 2014, 11:09 AM
#35
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Excuse my ignorance, is there any risk of the fuel not getting evenly distributed since it's "hitting" the opposite end of the pipe as it's traveling towards the manifold? Obviously it's not as high a pressure as a meth pump.
Feb 6, 2014, 03:18 AM
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Just found this dual injector fuel rail assembly. They use the EV1 injector. http://www.rossmachineracing.com/dualinjassm.html
Last edited by 8UpUrV8; Feb 6, 2014 at 05:06 AM. Reason: Ross Machine Racing updated me on injector specifics
Apr 10, 2014, 09:34 AM
#38
when injecting alky or meth on the I/C pipe, it simple reverses which cylinders go rich and which go lean.
Good to hear that is doing good.
The question for the dual maps is to revert to "only gas" in case of forgetting to fill the ethanol tank.
The question for the dual maps is to revert to "only gas" in case of forgetting to fill the ethanol tank.
Jan 29, 2017, 10:16 AM
#41
car doesnt get driven much. so there are worries everytime I drive car. but they are unfounded each time i drive the car. still havent touched the tune. car still drives like an animal. there is a bit of fuel leaking on top of IC pipes. the seals need to be replaced. a boss should have be welded to the pipe to contain seal. so it only relies on fuel pressure to seal against pipe. when seal gets hard it doesnt seal well.
I am bumping this as there were soo many nay sayers. This has turned out to be one of the nicest mods I have ever done to a 4g63.
I am building a new car right now. I have been thinking hard on how to tweek what I have here. My first thoughts would be to have four injectors like I originally planned. but there are a few things about four injectors I dont like. one is if one alky injector fails you can easily kill the engine as one cylinder goes lean. with two injectors on the intercoler pipe, if ones injector fails all four cylinders would go lean. far less likely to hurt engine. I like that. the second problem is with injectors on IC pipe you can go bigger and stage them. with four injectors there can only be one turn on point. last a local here built a 5 injector setup using one small injector before turbo. i liked the idea. the results were stunning. on a 20g 2.0 car was making 431 on wastegate boost 15psi. 521hp at 22psi. these are BIG numbers for a 20g on low boost. I attribute that 5th injector before turbo doing work. allows turbo itself to move more air.
so my new system has been designed with following tweeks:
3 injectors up from two. two on IC pipe, one pre turbo.
base fuel pressure on both fuel rails 4bar. up from factory 3bar. a tad better atomization with increased flow per injector. all three injectors will be wired as before. with exception the third injector will have its ground run through a second hobbs switch. beauty of small injector pre turbo is it will not be injecting into pressurized tube. so it sees 6 bar fuel pressure. for excellent atomization. this design allows more alky fuel to be injected. 1st stage small pre turbo injector and one big injector turns on. turbo should spool faster as the air will be more dense right from turbo. last injector turns on one or two fuel cells later. staging will allow injectors to be larger over all. but transition will be even smoother.
While searching ebay for injectors to use and such I came across another idea I like. a mechanically injected secondary system using high pressure GDI parts. factory high pressure has been common OEM for some time now. there are small cam driven pumps for less than 100 and injectors plentiful and cheap. injecting at 1500 psi sounds really good to me. the only trick would be to drive the pump only under boost. I have simple solution for that. So after I get the summit setup and running good I may look further into a mechanical system setup for the evo 1.
I am bumping this as there were soo many nay sayers. This has turned out to be one of the nicest mods I have ever done to a 4g63.
I am building a new car right now. I have been thinking hard on how to tweek what I have here. My first thoughts would be to have four injectors like I originally planned. but there are a few things about four injectors I dont like. one is if one alky injector fails you can easily kill the engine as one cylinder goes lean. with two injectors on the intercoler pipe, if ones injector fails all four cylinders would go lean. far less likely to hurt engine. I like that. the second problem is with injectors on IC pipe you can go bigger and stage them. with four injectors there can only be one turn on point. last a local here built a 5 injector setup using one small injector before turbo. i liked the idea. the results were stunning. on a 20g 2.0 car was making 431 on wastegate boost 15psi. 521hp at 22psi. these are BIG numbers for a 20g on low boost. I attribute that 5th injector before turbo doing work. allows turbo itself to move more air.
so my new system has been designed with following tweeks:
3 injectors up from two. two on IC pipe, one pre turbo.
base fuel pressure on both fuel rails 4bar. up from factory 3bar. a tad better atomization with increased flow per injector. all three injectors will be wired as before. with exception the third injector will have its ground run through a second hobbs switch. beauty of small injector pre turbo is it will not be injecting into pressurized tube. so it sees 6 bar fuel pressure. for excellent atomization. this design allows more alky fuel to be injected. 1st stage small pre turbo injector and one big injector turns on. turbo should spool faster as the air will be more dense right from turbo. last injector turns on one or two fuel cells later. staging will allow injectors to be larger over all. but transition will be even smoother.
While searching ebay for injectors to use and such I came across another idea I like. a mechanically injected secondary system using high pressure GDI parts. factory high pressure has been common OEM for some time now. there are small cam driven pumps for less than 100 and injectors plentiful and cheap. injecting at 1500 psi sounds really good to me. the only trick would be to drive the pump only under boost. I have simple solution for that. So after I get the summit setup and running good I may look further into a mechanical system setup for the evo 1.
Last edited by 94AWDcoupe; Jan 30, 2017 at 06:37 AM.
Apr 1, 2017, 12:51 PM
#43
Evolved Member
While all options are on the table... What about a pull through or blow through CARB !? You would still need an ethanol pump but you already have that. Since the ethanol doesn't need to be exact maybe that would be the most reliable. I am nervous about mechanical relays or hobbs switches. If you can do those actions with solid state electronics that would be my suggestion. Lastly you stated some crazy high numbers for power at low boost. I am unsure how a 2.0 engine pressurized with 15psi could make such high numbers. I am not doubting that a 20g can make those numbers (cause I think it can), but I could post calculations that show a 2.0 pump (aka: engine) cannot flow enough air to make 431 at a low 15psi. The air flow rate just isn't there. Before you prove me wrong, perhaps this is because I am going by the 'ol school rough estimate that 40lbs of air is worth ~400hp. Maybe that doesn't apply to exotic fuels like E85... Not sure..
~Jaraxle
~Jaraxle
Apr 1, 2017, 05:59 PM
#44
Evolving Member
car doesnt get driven much. so there are worries everytime I drive car. but they are unfounded each time i drive the car. still havent touched the tune. car still drives like an animal. there is a bit of fuel leaking on top of IC pipes. the seals need to be replaced. a boss should have be welded to the pipe to contain seal. so it only relies on fuel pressure to seal against pipe. when seal gets hard it doesnt seal well.
I am bumping this as there were soo many nay sayers. This has turned out to be one of the nicest mods I have ever done to a 4g63.
I am building a new car right now. I have been thinking hard on how to tweek what I have here. My first thoughts would be to have four injectors like I originally planned. but there are a few things about four injectors I dont like. one is if one alky injector fails you can easily kill the engine as one cylinder goes lean. with two injectors on the intercoler pipe, if ones injector fails all four cylinders would go lean. far less likely to hurt engine. I like that. the second problem is with injectors on IC pipe you can go bigger and stage them. with four injectors there can only be one turn on point. last a local here built a 5 injector setup using one small injector before turbo. i liked the idea. the results were stunning. on a 20g 2.0 car was making 431 on wastegate boost 15psi. 521hp at 22psi. these are BIG numbers for a 20g on low boost. I attribute that 5th injector before turbo doing work. allows turbo itself to move more air.
so my new system has been designed with following tweeks:
3 injectors up from two. two on IC pipe, one pre turbo.
base fuel pressure on both fuel rails 4bar. up from factory 3bar. a tad better atomization with increased flow per injector. all three injectors will be wired as before. with exception the third injector will have its ground run through a second hobbs switch. beauty of small injector pre turbo is it will not be injecting into pressurized tube. so it sees 6 bar fuel pressure. for excellent atomization. this design allows more alky fuel to be injected. 1st stage small pre turbo injector and one big injector turns on. turbo should spool faster as the air will be more dense right from turbo. last injector turns on one or two fuel cells later. staging will allow injectors to be larger over all. but transition will be even smoother.
While searching ebay for injectors to use and such I came across another idea I like. a mechanically injected secondary system using high pressure GDI parts. factory high pressure has been common OEM for some time now. there are small cam driven pumps for less than 100 and injectors plentiful and cheap. injecting at 1500 psi sounds really good to me. the only trick would be to drive the pump only under boost. I have simple solution for that. So after I get the summit setup and running good I may look further into a mechanical system setup for the evo 1.
I am bumping this as there were soo many nay sayers. This has turned out to be one of the nicest mods I have ever done to a 4g63.
I am building a new car right now. I have been thinking hard on how to tweek what I have here. My first thoughts would be to have four injectors like I originally planned. but there are a few things about four injectors I dont like. one is if one alky injector fails you can easily kill the engine as one cylinder goes lean. with two injectors on the intercoler pipe, if ones injector fails all four cylinders would go lean. far less likely to hurt engine. I like that. the second problem is with injectors on IC pipe you can go bigger and stage them. with four injectors there can only be one turn on point. last a local here built a 5 injector setup using one small injector before turbo. i liked the idea. the results were stunning. on a 20g 2.0 car was making 431 on wastegate boost 15psi. 521hp at 22psi. these are BIG numbers for a 20g on low boost. I attribute that 5th injector before turbo doing work. allows turbo itself to move more air.
so my new system has been designed with following tweeks:
3 injectors up from two. two on IC pipe, one pre turbo.
base fuel pressure on both fuel rails 4bar. up from factory 3bar. a tad better atomization with increased flow per injector. all three injectors will be wired as before. with exception the third injector will have its ground run through a second hobbs switch. beauty of small injector pre turbo is it will not be injecting into pressurized tube. so it sees 6 bar fuel pressure. for excellent atomization. this design allows more alky fuel to be injected. 1st stage small pre turbo injector and one big injector turns on. turbo should spool faster as the air will be more dense right from turbo. last injector turns on one or two fuel cells later. staging will allow injectors to be larger over all. but transition will be even smoother.
While searching ebay for injectors to use and such I came across another idea I like. a mechanically injected secondary system using high pressure GDI parts. factory high pressure has been common OEM for some time now. there are small cam driven pumps for less than 100 and injectors plentiful and cheap. injecting at 1500 psi sounds really good to me. the only trick would be to drive the pump only under boost. I have simple solution for that. So after I get the summit setup and running good I may look further into a mechanical system setup for the evo 1.
Always enjoy your insight and knowledge on here and your posts are never disappointing. I'm def looking forward to you posting more on the possibility of the GDI setup and/or 3 injector setup with as many pics as you feel like sharing. Always love to see well thought out and planned setups in action. Keep up the good work and progressive thinking and FACTUAL posting, as you always do.
Mike
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