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-   -   Brake lines - what's up WORKS? (https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/works-california/173171-brake-lines-whats-up-works.html)

mayhem Dec 7, 2005 09:43 AM

Brake lines - what's up WORKS?
 
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...9&page=1&pp=15

You've been quiet on Evom, so lets hear it.

Silencer Dec 7, 2005 09:48 AM

Trying to start something?

mayhem Dec 7, 2005 09:55 AM

No, I would just like a formal statement from WORKS on the site they're a large vendor of. I'm a Works customer and my future with them may be determined by how they handle this issue. I'm not about to go digging around on another forum to look for info that should be handed to me.

The only info on this site so far is something that has been passed along from member to member.

Silencer Dec 7, 2005 10:02 AM

I also am a Works customer, but if I do not have any new information to add, I certainly don't go looking to start something. Post in the original thread if you have something to say. If you purchased the brake lines in question, call them for any concerns.

mayhem Dec 7, 2005 11:22 AM

Again, I'm not looking to start something , but rather to make sure everyone is properly informed. I've gone to bat for Works many times when other vendors bashed them and members on this site have done the same. In fact, getting them to step up and say something IS going to bat for them once again. I'm trying to protect their customers and themselves.

To say the least I feel concerned that there's no mention of this at all in their own forum or on their own website (besides the removal of the product). Even more concerned because it is about something as important as brake lines. Brake lines which means the issue could put someones life in danger. Should every customer just start randomly calling vendors to double check that all the previous parts they've purchased in the past are still safe? No, they should not have to do that. The vendor should seek them out and tell them. A good start would be at least a single post in their own forum.

If Works doesn't think this issue is pressing enough to even speak up about it, then they have lost my respect. But if you think I'm still out to "start something" so be it. I'm not one to vendor bash at all and I'm certainly not one to take advantage of something as serious as this just to get a jab in at them. All I am suggesting is making post, sticky, thread or something somewhere on this site about the issue. Relying on customers to post 2nd hand information about a potential problem as serious as this is just plain irresponsible.

nutrulz Dec 7, 2005 11:33 AM

If you read a little more, this failure has only happened in race track conditions at extremely high temperatures with many other questionable variables. If your just driving around town it's not an issue. If your at the track, it sounds like you are taking your life in your own hands anyway.

and yes you are starting something, perhaps you should have kept this in the original thread or contacted Works directly.

smack_evo Dec 7, 2005 12:03 PM


Originally Posted by nutrulz
If you read a little more, this failure has only happened in race track conditions at extremely high temperatures with many other questionable variables. If your just driving around town it's not an issue. If your at the track, it sounds like you are taking your life in your own hands anyway.

and yes you are starting something, perhaps you should have kept this in the original thread or contacted Works directly.

actually if YOU had read even a bit more you would have seen that one did let go on the street as well.

i do agree this should be a sticky somewhere and when it gets properly resolved(which i have no doubt it will with pete on the case) post that info as well.

just so people know what's going on :)

MrMejia Dec 7, 2005 01:16 PM

here we go.............

Jamie@WORKS Dec 8, 2005 06:46 PM

We have replied with the following statements:


In the interest of collecting data and facts from various customers over the past couple of days, we wanted a better understanding of the situation before posting a hasty reply. This is our prognosis thus far.


Although we are car enthusiasts at heart and like to go fast, safety has always and will continue to be our number one concern.
We have sold hundreds of brake lines to track and road enthusiasts nationwide but there have been recent incidents with hard use at the track which require our attention. There have been no incidents reported during use on the road.

Because we are concerned with safety, each and every brake line is pressure tested to 4000+ psi with fluid (not air) to ensure the utmost safety and carries approval from the D.O.T. This is 300% to 400% higher than pressure exerted inside the line under braking.

We are so confident in our designs that we always utilize what we produce and this product is no exception. Our WORKS race car which just won class at Time Attack and our shop MR runs these same off-the-shelf TKS brake lines as well as all of our personal EVOs for years which makes 6 total. We have not seen any sign of fatigue or failure with any of our cars (although most of us are running the Mitsubishi brake guides). *As a side note, this issue has not occurred to any vehicles running the Mitsubishi brake guides or other brake cooling devices.
To explore any heat related issue, we are implementing a new testing procedure which includes heating the testing environment to simulate track usage.

Although we believe these incidents are isolated, there are several things you can do to help prevent an undesirable brake situation:

1) Implement a brake cooling device to help prevent the heat from building up in your calipers such as the Mitsubishi brake guides and trim the plastic undertray per the Mitsubishi instructions.

2) Please have the lines properly installed by an Authorized WORKS Dealer. As simple as they seem, there is some indication that a line failure was due to installation error. For instance, adding any type of locking or restriction device (i.e. zip tie) in the wrong location may prevent the line from moving freely in either direction through the intermediate sleeve. In fact, many track EVOs have the intermediate sleeve disconnected as a result of brake lines pulling out of their fittings among all different brands.

3) Please use a very high-grade brake fluid such as “Motul RBF 600” to prevent the brake fluid from boiling. This can degrade any brake line very quickly. *As another side note, the brake line issue we are addressing has not occurred with any EVO while using “Motul RBF 600”.

It seems like another concern is with the outer blue jacket. Although this coating prevents particles from embedding into the stainless steel braid, this is not a functional part of the line and may deform under excessive heat. There is no direct correlation with jacket deformation and line failures. As stated in our installation instructions,
“*The blue protective coating on these lines may degrade over time depending on temperature and flex. This will not affect their performance or functionality.”

As a manufacturer we have an obligation to provide the safest product possible. With the holidays and winter upon us, this will give us ample time to test and ensure we have a safe and superior product.
Meanwhile, for those running our brake lines at the track between now and the end of the year (especially without any brake cooling), please contact us for further information. You can call us at 415.641.WORKS (9675) or email info@worksmitsu.com.
and a follow up...


We are still working around the clock to understand a potential brake line issue and have even put our 2.4L Supercharger Kit on hold to get to the bottom of this.

Much time has been invested between our supplier and ourselves in this investigation with countless hours researching front-end vehicle dynamics and sacrificing over 50 brake lines under destructive testing.

As we continue to conduct or investigation, your feedback is very important. For those track customers who received our questions or questionnaire and have yet to respond, please do so as it will aid this investigation and benefit the EVO community. This data may point to a simple production lot issue as we recently discovered that some WORKS customers with TKS brake line kits have endured over 20+ track days. *Remember that our original WORKS race car went through two seasons of heavy rally and track usage with multiple drivers (different braking styles).

As the EVO is a relatively heavy vehicle with significant front-end weight bias, we still recommend the following for those EVOs going to the track:
1. Utilization of a brake cooling device
2. Installation by an Authorized WORKS Dealer (we have seen some lines installed with significant twisted pre-load which will encourage any line to twist out of a fitting)
3. Using the best brake fluid you can afford

After all the research is done and we have come to a conclusion, the proper steps will be taken to ensure each and every WORKS EVO enthusiast (including ourselves) has a safe set of TKS brake lines.
Until further notice we have suspended the sale of these lines.

Again, if you plan on participating in a track event in the near future, please contact us to discuss your individual situation at 415.641.WORKS (9675) or email us at info@worksmitsu.com.

Jamie@WORKS Dec 8, 2005 06:54 PM


Originally Posted by smack_evo
actually if YOU had read even a bit more you would have seen that one did let go on the street as well.

i do agree this should be a sticky somewhere and when it gets properly resolved(which i have no doubt it will with pete on the case) post that info as well.

just so people know what's going on :)

We have not heard from anyone who has had a WORKS TKS Brake Line failure on the street. So far these are isolated incidents that have occurred on track under extreme conditions.

We have customers with well over 20 track events on their lines and they look great. Our original (as in one of the first ever made) survive to this day and our Time Attack EVO is also equipped with a set. If there was a widespread concern about the lines in general, they wouldn't be on my own EVO. I've owned three brands of lines (aside from stock) and these are still the best in my book :)

dohcvtec Dec 9, 2005 06:35 PM

Any updates on your investigation?

Silencer Dec 9, 2005 06:40 PM


Originally Posted by dohcvtec
Any updates on your investigation?

They just posted yesterday, what else do you expect?

jansolo Dec 9, 2005 07:56 PM

Yeah but they have been investigating the brake line issues for a short while now, so it is natural to wonder if anything new has been discovered since the official investigation first started.

dohcvtec Dec 10, 2005 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by Silencer
They just posted yesterday, what else do you expect?

The post on NorCalEvo.net has been there much longer than it has been here. TIA!

kirk@WORKS Dec 10, 2005 05:10 PM

WORKS at Thunderhill
 
I will personally be on the track tomorrow 12/11/05 and we will have 3 cars running HPDE w/ the WORKS TKS brakelines. We plan to evaluate the lines throughout the day and study the situation in depth.

FYI, I have run in HPDE (4) at 15 track events at Thunderhill over the last 12 months w/o any issues.

Kirk


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