yoshimitsuspeed

Hey guys. Been a member of dsmtuners for years. Sold my DSM and got a MK1 MR2 which I'm doing a very custom turbo build on. Due to my familiarity with them I went DSM turbo. I have a T25 on right now with the WG disconnected till I get my water to air IC finished. I'm also running a blacktop 20 valve 4age 1.6 liter with 11:1 compression so it will be pretty low boost at least for now but I will probably dig into the bottom end at some point and build it for more boost.
Anyway dsmtuners and mr2oc have been great resources for turbo knowledge up till now but I have been seriously looking at the evo twin scroll turbos and there doesn't seem to be a lot of knowledge or info on the twin scroll since most DSMers say it's not worth the effort to switch over. I built a custom manifold and it would be relatively easy for me to go back in and separate cyls 1/4 and 2/3 and make a little adapter to go from the single scroll flange to the evo flange.
Now here's where the questions come.
If I did this my goal would be to make a 16g spool as fast as possible. I am only looking for 200-250 whp now and no more than 350 if I built the bottom end. I think the 14b 6 cm turbine housing would be ok for this. Probably a bit small for the second phase of the build.

Question 1
Do you guys think you could get an evo twin scroll housing to spool as fast or faster than the 6 cm housing on the same turbo?

Question 2
From the research I have done it seems the evo x compressor is the smallest quickest spooling is this true?
If not which is?

Question 3
I noticed some spin different directions. Tell me if I have this right.
14b
16g evo 3 and evo 10 all spin the same way.

Evo 4-9 all spin the oposite way is that correct?

Question 4
Would it be possible to mix and match compressors and turbine housings to make a 16G that spools faster than any stock option?

Question 5. Would it be possible to get a 16g to spool as fast or faster than a 14b? If not how close could you get?

I researched this a lot on my own but since most people are trying to get max flow and power out of their 16g there isn't a lot on making one for max spool.



It looks like the 6-9 turbos might work without clocking them. This would be nice since with the DSM stuff I need to fab custom WG mounts.

yoshimitsuspeed

Just found this thread. Reading through it now. Lot's of info.
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?op...&topic=22486.0

-Jarred-

iTrader: (1)

The difference in spool between a 6cm TD05H 14B and 7cm TD05H 16G should be barely noticeable anyway. The 14B is WAY too small for a 2L and should have never been there in the first place! You could of course try using the 6cm exh housing with a 16G to make things spool a bit quicker, but you're only limiting your top end by doing that in my opinion.

I'm looking into a t/s setup based off an Evo X exhaust housing myself, the ultimate would be a TD05HA Ti-Al turbine/shaft, but I'm yet to find one.

yoshimitsuspeed

Are you saying there should be little difference between the two housings on one turbo or are you saying there should be little difference in spool between the two turbos altogether?
It's my understanding the 6 cm should spool 300-500 rpm faster. Not a lot but something. It also looks like the overall difference in spool between the 14b and say an evo 3 16g is maybe 800 to 1000 rpm difference total. Not a lot but I want a fast spooling turbo.
This is also on a 1.6 liter so it spools a bit slower than a DSM/Evo but the motor revs to 8k stock so the turbo deff needs to be able to breath.

I have been reading about the Ti-Al turbine but they are hard to find huh?
I was also just reading about the mag compressor but was also reading about how some were known to explode. Is this an issue that got resolved and if so are they hard to find?
So how does the spool compare between the small twin scroll housings vs the 7 cm?
What would be the fastest spooling 16g possible?

-Jarred-

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh didn't realize you were chucking it on a 1.6 (4G61T? Mines going on a 1.8L 4G93T), the deficit in displacement will make a difference, the 6cm housing would be preferable over the 7cm item then. Not sure how well a 1.6 would react to a 12cm T/S housing either.

yoshimitsuspeed

Motor is a toyota 4AGE
Are all the T/S 12 cm?

BigT

iTrader: (8)

I would run an evo 9 turbo with a 9.8cm hotside. Smaller scroll area with a bigger compressor. that should be interesting.

-Jarred-

iTrader: (1)

For the normal rotation TD05H Evo X turbo yeah. The reverse rotation TD05HRAs vary between 9cm and 10.5cm (and aftermarket 11.5cm on ebay)

yoshimitsuspeed

Ok so the 9 cm would be quickest spooling but the 9.8 would be the easiest to find in the states yeah?


I guess the 8, 9 and 10 turbos are the only practical options.
I am deff leaning toward the 8/9 due to the clock and smaller turbine housing. So would the evo 9 compressor be best for spool?
Is there any chance something like this would spool as fast as say a small or evo 3 with a 7 cm housing? I assume there could be some top end gained from better flow.

sparky

iTrader: (1)

You can get a brand new 9cm turbine housing from Forced Performance. The quickest spooling turbines were the Titanium-Aluminide wheels available on the TommiMakinen(TME) Evo6 turbos, and the JDM VIII RS turbos. The quickest spooling compressor wheel was a Magnesium wheel off a British market Evo IX RS, I think. The VIII compressor housing spools better than the IX comp housing.

-Jarred-

iTrader: (1)

Finding a Ti-Al turbine from the reverse rotation family (TD05HRA) will be easier for you, an Evo IX TD05HRA with the 9.8cm housing would be a good bet.
Another option, if you're willing to try and source the parts could be a 15GK2 compressor, (49mm inducer, 65mm exducer) from an Evo VI TME/VII GTA combined with a TD05HRA 9.8 hotside.

Edit: Another option would be to run the TD05H 152G6 Evo X turbo (Slightly smaller inducer than a 16G - 47.1mm), without the 12cm T/S housing and use the 6cm single scroll housing.

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

I have driven the mitsu 1.6 with 16g/7cm. It was very laggy. Kinda like a 2.0 with 35r setup. For 250whp goal stick with 14b.
If you are convinced you need 16g then stay with 6cm housing. Find a small 16g. they spool far faster than evo 16g. the 6cm housing will spool faster than even the 9cm evo 4 twin scroll.
my opinions are based on actual experience.

14b on 11/1 compression can make 325whp with correct fuel. that will be a hoot in that small chassis. I also drove that mr2 chassis for a year. loved that car. would love to install 4g in one someday.

always loved that car Ray hall built. using the factory turbo 4 age 1.8 and 300whp autronic tuned.

edit: another good option is stock evo 10 turbo in 14b housings (comp and 6cm.). I have done this and its a kickass turbo as well.

yoshimitsuspeed

Hey guys long time I know.

I still haven't gotten around to throwing the 14b on but I had an idea the other day and I was wondering if anyone had tried it on a evo twin scroll.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewto...p?f=3&t=135477

discopotato03

You could be better off using clockwise rotation turbos and something with ball bearings would be good .
Matter of opinion but the trend these days is to stay with 4 valve heads on bikes and cars , the extra valve screws up the combustion chamber shape and adds a lot more complexity to the valve train .
16v 4AGE heads I think go on 7A blocks and the extra capacity won't hurt anything except maximum revs .
Turbo wise I'd be researching the newer Garrett GTX2860R and GTX2863R , you get a choice of 0.64 and 0.86 turbine housings so something to experiment with .

A .

C6C6CH3vo

iTrader: (9)

Why optimize such a very small fraction of the typical 16g twin-scroll boost profile. These turbos are already capable of spinning up and pumping out psi rather quick.

When the topic of steep spool profile comes up the bbk_lite always comes to mind. They overdid it on this one, to the point of requiring additional boost control measures to avoid 2.X bar spiking.