EVO KiiD

iTrader: (4)

I got my EVO all back together and started but I'm missing on #1 and #3. I have spark, coils are good, plugs are good, timing is on, timing tensioner pulley is set correctly and has proper tension, I have good compression through out all cylinders and this is the initial start up too so the rings are not completely seated, plug wires are good, fuel pressure is at 40 psi, I got a check engine light once for P0500 speed sensor. I cleared the code and engine has started several times after this and ran for 5 mins or so each time no valves hitting. The car will start every time first crank. The compression is as follows #1 is 110 psi #2 is 130 psi #3 is 130 psi #4 is 130 psi. I used a temp gun and the exhaust runners are at #1 120 faranheight #2 220 faranheight #3 160 faranheight #4 220 faranheight. The car idles and stays running on its own. Plug wires tested and the long wire is 5.8 kohm and the short wire is 2.9 kohm. No other check engine light codes have been detected or came up. I have a AEM A/F gauge and when the car revs up a little it reads high 14's to low 15's. No leaks all vacuum lines are secure. I'm a little stumped. I have tried to talk to some local people and unfortunately as some of us may know Tobz is a hard person to get a hold of, Lucas from Carz didn't want to even give me the time of day oh well and I will talk to Daniel from BR tomorrow. I have done many searches on Google and most misfire has a CEL. Most of those from EvoM are in result of faulty injector or dirty injector and that is the direction I'm looking at right now. I will be doing some injector testing tomorrow. No fouled plugs either. Any ideas, links, feedback or whatever is much appreciated. Hope to figure it out tomorrow and have her at Bandi on Sunday for IDRC Tuner Mayhem!!

EVO KiiD

iTrader: (4)

Here's a short video of the first start up

http://s235.photobucket.com/user/thi...ba2ba.mp4.html

llDemonll

iTrader: (21)

first off, evo compression should be 160 +/- 15. 110, and even 130 is low

EVO KiiD

iTrader: (4)

I understand that but that does not explain why 2 cylinders are not having explosions in them. Keep in mind as I did mention that this is a first start up, this is a new motor and rings have not had a chance to fully seat yet either. Any other ideas or thoughts?

evolve_VIII

iTrader: (11)

Plug gap should be around 22-24.

Not sure on your injectors but if you didnt reinstall the metal clip, make sure that the connector is fully seated. You can swap an injector as well to see if the misfire follows the injector. If not, you have an ignition concern. What kind of ignition do you have and how did you check for spark?

If you are using the stock COPs, make sure that the mounting area for the coil is clean and the bolts are clean. The COP uses the bolt and mounting as a ground. A weak grounk will cause a weak spark.

Also, on the exhaust cam gear, there is the cam angle sensor. Make sure that this is installed correctly. Im not 100% sure but i think the ignition is based off the cam angle sensor. If it is 180 degrees off, this is why 1 and 3 are not firing. You can try turning it 180 degrees and starting it.

Agreed that you will have lower compression since the rings have not seated.

EVO KiiD

iTrader: (4)

I'm using stock injectors and I did put the PITA clips back on lol so they should be seated all the way I made sure they would not pull up.

I have the stock COP and I'm pretty sure its nice and clean on the cam cover, the coil pack and the bolts, but I will def re-check and clean all areas to be certain its getting a good ground.

I used a spark plug tester, the kind that plugs into the end of the plug wire and goes onto the top of the plug and lights up when turned over. Very similar to a test light in a sense. Is there a better way to make sure its just not a weak spark to those 2 cylinders?

I'm very positive the cam angle sensor on the exhaust side is correct well in relation to the Mitsubishi Service Manual but that has been wrong before. That is the cam sensor that has only 2 blades on it so that could make sense, I will try that too.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions!

evolve_VIII

iTrader: (11)

I use this to check for spark. If it can jump this gap, you have good spark.

http://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-6...FfBaMgod9A8A4g

They also make an adjustable one. Its 15 bucks. This way you can see the spark.

You can also swap coils if you suspect you have a weak coil.

Since I went to the spoolin up COP kit, I added a ground strap to the valve cover as well. Just for added insurance I guess.

EVO KiiD

iTrader: (4)

Good info thank you! I did oull the plug and check for spark and it was definitely good. I did swap the coil packs them self not with new ones but just the location and no change. I will give a detailed rundown of what I did today and I know I'm getting close. I did the things you mentioned too.

I did several things today to drill down and find out what the freakin problem is. I tested the spark yesterday and was very confident no issues there. I started today by pulling the rail off with fuel lines connected and injectors attached. I tested the first injector from #1 cylinder and it sprayed good, so I went ahead and swapped the injectors, trade #1 to #2 and #3 to #4 and re-installed the setup. Since #1 and #3 were not getting the explosions the plugs were clean. I put those plugs into the other cylinders just like the injectors #1 to #2 and #3 to #4 and turned the car over she started right up again but still has a miss issue. The miss stayed the same on #1 and #3. The exhaust runners were hot on only #2 and #4 and the plugs dark in #2 and #4 reinforcing the explosions were happening in the same cylinders. I cleaned the surface really good on the cam cover where the coils sit, the coils mounting surface, the coils bolts and applied new dielectric grease to the plug wires boots (all 4) to reassure good connectivity and good grounding before the start up.

Next I pulled plug #1 with wire attached and grounded it out and was getting a good spark just to make certain there.

Next I pulled the cam sensing blade/ cup whatever you want to call it on exhaust cam and swapped it 180 even tho I knew it was correct just to check that and no dice so I put it back to the correct position. #1 at TDC with cams at correct position and set the small blade to 11 o'****.

So now we're really stumped..... We start it again and pull the boot out on #1 while running and here spark and do the same on #3 too but hear a back fire on #3 when boot was put back on. So we start thinking about the compression as we're so close to the 20% difference between #1 compared to the rest as #1 was the only one low. So we know we need to determine where the difference is coming from to narrow down this issue. We do a leak down test on #1 and there we have it, intake valves are not seating all the way as air is leaking out the intake mani. At this point I'm pretty much out of time for the day. So next week I will pull the cam cover and intake cam and re-bleed the lifters again. I think I know what caused this with the lifters as I primed the car by using a drill to spin the oil pump with the cams set to their timing marks for TDC and lifters are over pumped for #1 and with the setup I have with the BR 2.3L build and BR stage 3 head the valve clearance is great enough to not make contact. Since #1 is having issues its causing the corresponding cylinder to have issues and that would be #3. After I bleed the lifters down for the intake cam I will do another leak down test to make sure no air passes through the intake mani. If all is good on the leak down test then I will start the car and let it pump up the lifters itself while rotating to get the correct height adjustment for the lifters. If leak down still fails then I will look other ways for what could cause these intake valves on #1 to not seat all the way like possible shimming is incorrect for the springs but I highly doubt that as BR just did a vacuum test before I got the head back.

EVO KiiD

iTrader: (4)

One thing I forgot to mention is that the exhaust cam sensor is for fuel timing but great idea sir as I did try that too as mentioned in the above reply.

llDemonll

iTrader: (21)

check the injector connectors and spark plug connectors on #1 and #3

also check the coil packs. cylinders 1 and 3 are both the "piggyback" portions of the stock ignition coils

EVO KiiD

iTrader: (4)

Done and done all are good, did you read my update by any chance? I have narrowed it down to intake valves letting air pass by when they are closed on a leak down test. The valves are not bent and are brand new as I have a stage 3 head from BR that has never been run and I just got back from having exhaust valves replaced so they recently did 2 vacuum tests about 3 weeks ago and I just got the head installed and everything put back together, timed and started this Wednesday 6-5-13. The compression test led to this as #1 is 110 #2 is 130 #3 is 130 and #4 is 130 so this is for sure the culprit. Thanks for the feedback tho.

I will post updates once I bleed the lifters again and run the leak down test again next week, I work Fri-Mon.

4RETECH

iTrader: (86)

Check your injector resistor pack mounted on the firewall.

After I put mu buddy's car back together, which ran fine before. All of a sudden, it had a misfire in number 2 cylinder. The resistor pack ballast blew in that injector circuit.

Just ohm all four out to be certain.

EVO KiiD

iTrader: (4)

Will do, this won't hurt to be absolutely positive each of the injector connectors are getting power to actually make the injectors work. I am getting fuel to each cylinder but maybe not the proper amount or voltage. I didn't even think about the resistor pack as I know someone that just recently had to replace theirs.

evolve_VIII

iTrader: (11)

Im glad that you found it was a leak down issue through the valves. I would have not suspected that with a new head even after bleeding the lifters. I just built a 2.4l.

Keep us posted on what you find.

Even if you though the rings were possibly causing lower compression on a new engine, you can pour some oil into the cylinder to help seal the top ring.

I would do this since you have 2 dead cylinders and the fuel may have washed down the cylinder walls. If you pull the head, make sure that you relube the cylinder walls before installation and turn the crank over my hand a few times. If you dont pull the head, use something you can spray on the walls through the spark plug hole.

EVO KiiD

iTrader: (4)

Thanks! I appreciate you taking the time to actually read the replies and you have very good positive feedback. I was told about using oil in the cylinders to help build compression. I hope the head does not need to come off again but will def try to get some lube on the cylinder walls to help with the gas that was in there and not being burnt off.

I will for sure post an update after doing things this coming up Tuesday hopefully with a video of the start up and her running like a champ

I hope the 2.4L has been good to you so far and that you enjoy it!