Going ghetto Garrett - KAMAK
Nov 30, 2014, 04:49 PM
#16
funny. the "zen state" means " I will go ahead and balance so I can get paid my 100"
thanks for posted that. turbo did not need to be balanced at all. keeping balance under the .7 is in very good balance. you can even see the heavy dash line at .7 . when vibration lines are below that line thats when they normally stop the balancing process and send it out.
thanks for posted that. turbo did not need to be balanced at all. keeping balance under the .7 is in very good balance. you can even see the heavy dash line at .7 . when vibration lines are below that line thats when they normally stop the balancing process and send it out.
Nov 30, 2014, 05:09 PM
#17
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Just to be clear "zen state" was my wording not PureTurbos. I asked ahead of time about the cost if it needed no balancing. The answer was clear: all the work to discover the balance (setup the rig, program, diagnose, oil pressure, return shipping etc) was 99% of the job. Tapping the end bolt with a dremel isn't the big cost. So I knew up front it was going to be 100 bucks whether it needed balancing or not. It was insurance I was willing to pay, and I think they did a good job when you also measure in communication (live intelligent person picking up the phone!), shipping (nicely packaged on return). I asked THREE times for Kinugawa to answer if the CHRA was balanced and of what type of balancing. Since I couldn't get an answer, combined with finding a few internet stories of Kamak/Kinugawa early failures it was enough for me to ship it out. If you want to call my turbo overbalanced, I can live with that.
I am posting all of this so perhaps the next guy can save the 100 bucks I was willing (and felt the need to) blow.
I am posting all of this so perhaps the next guy can save the 100 bucks I was willing (and felt the need to) blow.
Nov 30, 2014, 11:01 PM
#18
to be clear shipping the turbo both ways cost about 40. so the information saves blowing 140. worse than that no amount of balancing will help the type of failures these turbos have. the materials are not the best quality. the wheels can and do just fly apart when shaft speeds get too high. and you could have a proven turbo path for what you spent on this turbo.
Last edited by 94AWDcoupe; Nov 30, 2014 at 11:05 PM.
Dec 1, 2014, 08:39 AM
#19
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Thread Starter
the sky is falling
to be clear shipping the turbo both ways cost about 40. so the information saves blowing 140. worse than that no amount of balancing will help the type of failures these turbos have. the materials are not the best quality. the wheels can and do just fly apart when shaft speeds get too high. and you could have a proven turbo path for what you spent on this turbo.
I don't know where your vast knowledge about KAMAK turbocharger construction and how they simply are exploding time bombs comes from. I was unable to find any documented failures of that kind, and I decided to forge down this path and document for my fellow Evo owners my experience.
On the contrary www.steamturbochargers.com sells these KAMAK turbochargers to the Subaru crowd with great success, and I have not found reports of random exploding BILLET wheels. If I do experience this, I will post on the forums with pictures of the carnage. I am doubting that will ever happen.
If you have 1st hand experience with the internals of the turbochargers made by KAMAK, or have had a KAMAK BILLET compressor explode on you, then please post the pictures and the facts so other Evo owners can know this. I searched all over and couldn't find such negative information which is why I am going this direction cautiously and documenting on here. If there had been numerous reports of these turbos being absolute junk, I wouldn't have bought it in the 1st place.
Dec 1, 2014, 01:41 PM
#20
I have personal experience with the turbine flying apart on two occasions and the compressor wheel on one occasion.. after the third failure i stopped using them as i realized they werent saving me any money.. the kamak center you see is my turbo. was a 6sl2 turbine mated to cast 20g wheel. fun azz turbo but only lasted 10 months. was perfect before the wheel just mysteriously lost a chunk. the billet wheel pic was pulled from another website. but same type of material failure i was seeing. hopefully you will have better luck. 
Last edited by 94AWDcoupe; Dec 1, 2014 at 01:49 PM.
Mar 21, 2015, 05:37 PM
#21
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
I have used and done a lot of researched on the kamak parts. thats a good combo you got. the 9 blade wheel is not just 3 dropped blades. the profile was changed and the blades made much larger. power numbers will fall between hta 71 and hta green. closer to hta 71. hard to find people pushing the billet 20g wheels. best I found was 465ish whp on a fwd srt. thats about what it can do on a nice e85 setup. hta71 would only be about 15whp short. but with a good bit better response. it will be way short of gtx71. that wheel can do 530whp, and has.
. As NY starts to thaw out (and my warranty) I am staging a pile of upgrade parts including this CHRA. I have found some negative responses for KAMAK, but also for the big two as well. Is your opinion that KAMAK CHRAs are nothing more then grenades?
May 23, 2015, 08:25 PM
#22
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Turbo Installed
What a headache! I haven't done a turbo swap in a decade and that was on my '99 DSM. This was absolute murder. It took my brother and I two days work to perform the swap. I used to pull the 16g out of my Eclipse in an hour or so.
Initial driving impressions: I cannot believe how fast the turbo spools. I know people say "like stock" all the time, but this is truly that or faster. It could actually be faster because of the lighter turbine. The preload on the turbosmart actuator needs to be adjusted - I was hitting 19psi on a 14psi configured actuator.
Problems with install: the turbocharger came with bolts installed to plug the two optional cooling passages. This interfered with the stock banjo bolt cooling line on the firewall side of the turbo. The OEM MHI CHRA uses recessed plugs. To add insult to injury the interference was magnified by a small tab welded on the OEM coolant line. The solution was to cut this tab off, and slightly raise the banjo bolt from the CHRA by doubling up on copper crush washers. Also the oil drain tube would not line up with the block. I am not sure if this is actually because of the turbocharger - probably not; but we had to solve it. So we cut out a 1-2" section of it and worm gear clamped an oil rated hose so we had some movement.
To prime the oil system I loaded the Cobb OTS anti-theft map in the ecu, and cranked the engine over three times for three seconds each.
More to come as I adjust the boost, tune, measure power
Initial driving impressions: I cannot believe how fast the turbo spools. I know people say "like stock" all the time, but this is truly that or faster. It could actually be faster because of the lighter turbine. The preload on the turbosmart actuator needs to be adjusted - I was hitting 19psi on a 14psi configured actuator.
Problems with install: the turbocharger came with bolts installed to plug the two optional cooling passages. This interfered with the stock banjo bolt cooling line on the firewall side of the turbo. The OEM MHI CHRA uses recessed plugs. To add insult to injury the interference was magnified by a small tab welded on the OEM coolant line. The solution was to cut this tab off, and slightly raise the banjo bolt from the CHRA by doubling up on copper crush washers. Also the oil drain tube would not line up with the block. I am not sure if this is actually because of the turbocharger - probably not; but we had to solve it. So we cut out a 1-2" section of it and worm gear clamped an oil rated hose so we had some movement.
To prime the oil system I loaded the Cobb OTS anti-theft map in the ecu, and cranked the engine over three times for three seconds each.
More to come as I adjust the boost, tune, measure power
May 24, 2015, 07:54 AM
#24
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
turbine specs
It is the kamak sts td05 9 blade turbine. So it is 9/12 the weight of the OEM mhi one. Downside is that it is made of 718 inconel which is lower temp rated than 713 which is used by mhi and Garrett.
May 24, 2015, 07:57 AM
#25
I'm glad to hear you are going to review this turbo. Please keep us updated. After you get it tuned I'd love to see a some dyno pull charts. I'd like to see how much boost it can push above 5500rpm.
May 24, 2015, 08:00 AM
#26
if you relying on needle type boost gauge to observe spike you may not actually have a spike. needle type boost gauges kinda suck for fast spooling turbos. the needle cant stop instantly so it gives false overboost reading. notice any noise difference during spool?
May 24, 2015, 09:21 PM
#27
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
My intake is a custom Apexi/aem hybrid I made specifically for intake sound. I posted about it once. The spool up sounds are louder massive air sucking. No surge so far. However the first time I did WOT I thought all was well but then noticed a 10 knock count on the AP. I read on motoiq that this is common with the ams widemouth downpipe. I made a map with 3deg less timing and will try that tomorrow. The 19psi was my fault. Although I had the solenoid tables zero's out I accidentally left the max upward correction to 10%. That little bit was enough to get me to 19psi! Crazy. So for now I am tuning @15psi which is the turbosmart actuator spring (14psi actually)....
May 25, 2015, 03:53 PM
#28
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Boost Curve
So you be the judge. Here is the boost curve with a turbosmart wastegate actuator set at 14psi. I am not sure why I am boosting so far above that given the preload is minimal. My only guess right now is that the AMS widemouth downpipe combined with the STS turbine is making the wastegate path not as desirable as expected from a pressure-flow standpoint.
Anyhow, the boost curve is attached with LOW timing and PIG rich. Working on the tune now. Amazingly quick spool!
Anyhow, the boost curve is attached with LOW timing and PIG rich. Working on the tune now. Amazingly quick spool!
May 31, 2015, 12:17 AM
#29
Looks good so far! For what it's worth, I've used a few Kinugawa turbos (apparently made by Kamak) and never experienced any issues or failures. The turbos seemed to also spool quicker than stock which I attributed to the billet wheels. Power also seemed a tad higher too when I used just a replacement for the original turbo. I'd recommend them as a good bang for the buck.
Jun 16, 2015, 12:09 PM
#30
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
I am going to disappoint in this regard. I have a stock block and stock SST. I am also not in the position to test those to the limits. I am afraid I am not going to come close to what this turbo is capable of. I will post very soon my dyno graph (in the dyno thread area) and link it in here. I never intended to build a dyno queen.
Keep in mind my goal up front was to limit torque and in this respect I am meeting the mark. I set a "mental" limit of 300TQ to the wheels from the beginning and trust me it is very tempting to throw that limit out the window. So I am aiming for a super fat-wide torque curve, while staying under 300 TQ to the wheels. Awesome as a daily and track/autocross car.