Stonewall

Hey all, new the forums, and can I just say is it nice to be able to say I finally own one of these beauties. Anyways, I tend to ramble, and seeing as this is my first post, I'll do my best to keep it as short and sweet as I can. I'll post up a few pics of what the new mods look like under the hood and one of my car so you guys can get somewhat of an idea of what I've got. I'm sorry about the engine pics, it's 4am and I took them with an iPod 5 in pitch black so if the picture quality isn't that great I apologize.

Anyways, guess I should start at the top. Owned a 2010 Lancer, and been drooling over the Evos ever since I found out about Mitsubishi and just what the Evos are, and what they're capable of. And was finally able to buy a new 2014 MR off the showroom floor a few weeks ago, and been loving it since. But even before I bought it, I already had in mind what I wanted done with it. I was in a serious car accident as a passenger when I was 15, nearly lost my life, then nearly lost the ability to walk. When I got older, became a Firefighter/EMT for years, then went to college for Nursing and Pre-Med, so I know all too well what speed can do, and when it comes to my cars I like torque, power, and a quick car. I could care less if my Evo can do 200 MPH, I just want it quick in a 1/4, and a "suck your eye-***** into the backseat when you step on the gas" kind of car, and a car that handles turns like it's got super glue on the wheels. I could really care less about top speed.

So yesterday, parts I orded finally came from AMS. Sadly because I paid off my old 2010 Lancer in full to use as an every-day run-around car and to save my Evo and keep miles off it, and then on top of that put down 20% in cash on my Evo, I wasn't able to purchase everything I was wanting for my MR, but I've got plenty of time to add more goodies to it. So I've made do with what little I got for it thus far.

So anyways, I picked up these two parts (links below) and got them installed today. I'm adding the links in hopes someone else has picked these parts up and maybe has run into the same problem I'm having and knows a quick fix, or may know of the exact problem I'm having and how to fix it, or what I did wrong.

I mean, I've had great support from AMS when I spoke to Andrew and Larry over the phone, and they were always very professional and helpful, and didn't act like salesmen just trying to sell me everything under the sun. If I wanted a part (for example a bigger fuel pump, 1000cc injectors, and a fuel rail) instead of just selling me the parts, the guy I spoke to broke it down for me and told me I'd just be wasting money and gas installing those parts without upgrading my turbo and a few other parts. So they've been really helpful and I'd definitely recommend AMS to anyone with an Evo looking for upgrades, but I doubt they would be able to help with something like this. I'd either have to speak to someone that actually builds their cars, does the work on the AMS Evos, or do what I'm doing now, and coming to you all (who I consider experts) for some help.

Cold Air Intake:
http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/A...-Polished.html

And Cobb Access Port:
http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/A...a-Stage-1.html


So, installed the CAI, got all that hooked up, made sure everything was put in right, tight, and ready to roll, then did my Cobb flash with AMS's own MAP program for the MR they pre-loaded themselves onto the unit, and made sure that was done right. I made sure to get the CAI installed first before I flashed the car. I didn't think it made much sense to flash the ECU with the stock intake and with the AMS intake not being on there, even though I never started the car during the flashing process after installing the AMS intake. I just installed the CAI, made sure everything was done, then grabbed my Cobb and started the MAP flash AMS had installed. I never started the car or anything after I installed the CAI as AMS warned that any Evo later than an '08 may have engine damage if this intake is installed and the car is ran without a remap being done. So right after I installed the AMS intake I flashed the ECU with the MAP AMS had installed in the Cobb. So maybe that was screw-up #1, and I should of at least started the car for a few seconds and let it recognize the different airflow before I flashed it? Or is that really not going to make any sort of difference?

Took the car out for a quick run just to make sure everything was tight and the car actually ran, then came back home. Then around 9-10 PM I ran into town to grab some gas and some food and just enjoy the new mods and an evening drive. It was a cold night (around 56 degrees) so I knew the car would really come to life compared to the hot humid days we've been having, and thought I would see what it would do.

Now mind you, I have a Solstice GXP that's turbo'd, but it's a 2008 and has all of 4,000 miles on it. It's basically a garage ornament, and it's bone stock. All my other vehicles have been naturally aspirated. Although I am a gearhead myself, my dad raced for NHRA back in the day, and I love cars, Imports are more-or-less a new thing to me. So when it comes to running something like an Evo, I'm a complete n00b on the matter, and what my car is doing might be exactly what it's "supposed" to be doing and/or sound like. But better cautious than stupid.

So the first thing I started to notice when I took it out earlier this evening was basically a fluttering sound. At first I thought the CAI had actually come loose off the intake manifold as if I didn't get it fully seated and tightened down enough. But it turned out to be fine. And really all I can identify this sound is like a "flutter" or almost a farting noise or somewhat like an exhaust system with a little too much back pressure that burps when you let off the throttle. That's about the best description I can give to what it sounds like.

It's not there when the car idles, it's not there when I really get on the car hard and go full throttle, it only seems to crop up when I'm just cruising around and the car is running around 3-4k RPMs. When I take my foot off the gas, I just get that classic BOV "Pssh" or if I stomp on it the fluttering and vacuum cleaner suction sound goes away and the engine just screams to life. It's when I start to accelerate inside the car my Evo literally sounds like a huge freaking vacuum cleaner sucking in air, and then it'll start that fluttering noise, then if I let my foot off the gas, the BOV will vent (and for being stock the damn thing is really loud), and everything goes back to normal. When I start to lightly accelerate again, the fluttering and vacuum cleaner like sucking noise comes back. Now as to the vacuum cleaner sucking noise, I'm not sure if that's just that huge K&N cone filter just sucking in all the air coming in from the hood vents, or if something is wrong. Another thing I've done is use the Cobb to read my boost since Mitsubishi didn't put a freaking boost gauge on the 2014 MR, and I've notice my boost was peaking around 24 PSI, and my vacuum peaking around -12. Again, since I'm new to the Evo scene, I'm not sure if this is over-boosting, or if my vacuum is running too low and I've got either a leak somewhere or a line not on tight enough, etc.

The one thing that really worried me the most was coming home the MIL light came on for like 1.5 seconds and went off, and never came back on or anything. I'm glad I just happened to glance down at my gauges and see it. It may have popped on a few other times too, but I only noticed it once, and it was on for all but a second and a half and went off, and never came back. So that was the only thing that had me worried it might actually be a malfunction of some sort.

As for the fluttering noise, I've read all night on about everything I could find on it, and I've found everything from people saying it's just either a normal thing, or it could be a kinked vacuum line, or a whole host of things. My personal opinion is that the stock BOV isn't meant to take the increased power, and the stock spring is leaking some of my boost to Atmo. I'm not sure if that is a possibility or no.

AMS lists that special intake as giving around 45 AWHP, because the re-positioning of the BOV and the way the intake is with shortend tubing with bungs, etc. (You'll see it in the pictures on how it compares to a stock setup). Plus the Cobb giving me somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-70ish with AMS's custom tune. The two guys I spoke with on the phone at AMS said I should be getting close to my goal of 400 HP, not reaching it, but getting close. And I'm assuming they're meaning brake HP and not HP at the wheels, because if all it took was those two things to go from 291 horse to 396ish AWHP I think everyone would be doing it.

My Car:



Under the hood with the AMS intake:



You can notice the different placement of the BOV with this setup when compared to stock. And the stock BOV is extremely loud. I don't know if it's because of the way AMS has this intake set up, or if just moving it away from the firewall more towards the front of the car just brought out the sound more. But it sounds a heck of a lot louder, almost like an aftermarket BOV.






The Cobb Access Port (Unplugged in this picture) :









If anyone has had this same issue, knew anyone complaining of the same thing, or knows anything about the problem (if it even is one) I'd just appreciate any information on the subject.

Thanks in advance guys.

zanelefko

iTrader: (2)

Enjoy the suction sound! that is the benefit of having the evo =) that is normal. I normally get a fluttering sound from the DV when I am on very light throttle, without a video and hearing the sound myself I can't give you an exact yes or no answer to if it is normal or not.

Scarlett X

Holy crap I got a paragraph in and stopped reading. TOO MUCH INFORMATION!

Stonewall

That was sort of the whole point of my post. I want to get to the bottom of it, and either find out if it's a bad vacuum hose, something is loose, the stock BOV isn't going to cut it, the turbo is over-boosting, etc. Not just go

"My car is making a noise, fix it."

Like most people do these days.

zanelefko

iTrader: (2)

Post a video of the noise like I said and we can better help you, some of us dont mind reading

Stonewall

I'll get one up ASAP. I already have 2 taken from the inside of my car that I took with my iPod but halfway through the video screws up and you can't really hear that "pft pft pft" noise because I had my windows up so you didn't hear anything but the wind sheering by the windows. I'll have to grab someone and either have them take a video of a driveby, or see if it will do it in Park/Neutral. But I doubt without the car being in gear the turbo is going to do much of anything aside from blow off once you get up around 6-7k RPM and let off the gas. (Thanks to the Cobb disabling any Rev limiter) I don't even think anything even engages when it's in park/neutral, at least with the SST. I don't know about the GSR and the gated manuals.

I'll try and get a video up this afternoon that you can definitely hear what I'm talking about and you can tell me what you think.

shekaar

iTrader: (3)

Sounds exactly like what happened when I installed my ETS intake and Cobb AP. The fluttering isn't there at WOT, or idle, just at normal driving/lower boost from 3-4k rpm?

Just to clarify, the stock Evo doesn't have a BoV (blow off valve), technically, it has a diverter valve. The stock DV doesn't blow anything into the atmosphere, it all gets recirculated. I am also not sure it is a spring system on the stocker.

After lots of searching myself, and I am sure you came across posts from me in the past on this, I would say, if possible go to a reputable tuner and have them check it out. Nobody can say for sure what the problem is even witha video.

Example, I posted a video of my noise, and was told it was compressor surge. It wasn't. It is a normal noise the Evo X makes, and it is just amplified by having an open air intake, normally muffled by the air box. My tuner was able to tell me that right off the bat, mine is actually caused by my boost solenoid regulating boost. Again, if at all possible, take it to a tuner. It is ultimately worth it, but I think you'll get the same response I did.

Also, the stock DV is generally perfectly capable of handling boost up to 26 psi with ease, and many people use it on their tuned cars. It will absolutely be fine with your intake/cobb OTS map combo...trust me you aren't putting down those kind of numbers with that

The only possibility of seeing close to 400whp on a dyno would be on a very generous dynojet or something...with all my mods listed, with a professional dyno tune, you can see my numbers on a mustand dyno haha.

Best of luck to you, congrats on your beautiful ride!

Stonewall

That's pretty much my problem in a nutshell. You go ***** to the wall, the issue isn't there, when the car idles, the issue isn't there, it's just when you cruise around when the car makes that pft pft pft noise on slight/moderate acceleration or just regular daily driving/cruising around. Almost a sucking/fluttering mixed type noise, or a noise a car would make with exhaust backpressure issues, or a sound you'd hear if the actual intake is loose from the manifold itself, it's hard to describe but it seems like you've had the same issue that I've ran into, and your explanation of it makes sense. It just being a normal noise the Evo X makes but it's muffled by the stock air box. And not having that stock air box there anymore with makes the sound more pronounced.

I didn't know the Evos only came with a diverter valve on and not BOVs, because the one that is on my MR sure as heck sounds like one. Either the dealer put one on, the '14 MRs have them on, or that or that AMS kit is somehow giving me a BOV sound. When I let my foot off the gas I just hear that signature "Psssh" of a turbo'd car, and I can tell you it's loud enough for me to hear it from inside with the windows rolled up (and I have all that added sound dampening stuff) with the stereo on.

The only problem is the state I live is is rednecks and trucks. There are those that have imports, but they're few and far between. Around here its Chevy/Dodge/Ford and I've seen people get into fist fights over whose truck is better. So finding a shop to take it to that would have any clue as to the inner workings of an Evo is going to be near impossible. And it's not like I can take it to the dealer and have them check it out and go "Hey look what I did to my car that probably just voided the factory waranty! See what the problem is." I've got all the stock parts laying in a box just in case it has to go back for service I can just slap them all back on and re-flash the ECU to stock. >_>

I can look around and see, but I think I'm going to come up short on that one. There ARE shops around my area that build motors, balance and blueprint them, they'll pull your motor and put forged rods, cam it up, etc., but it's more for older American muscle cars, or the newer type Camaros, Challengers, etc., not for imports like an Evo or a GT-R or anything like that. Chances are if I even took my car to them they'd tell me up front they WOULD work on it, but they'd have no idea of what they were doing and any risk of damage and them being liable would be forfeit.

Anyways I did manage to take some short video earlier when I had to run a few errands. I'll go through them and see if any of them are worth anything and you can hear what I'm talking about. But it was raining, roads were wet, and it wasn't the best time to try and run the car the way I needed to and do the things I needed to do to get a decent video of what my engine is doing.

A side note on the same subject, I've notice my car stalling when I go to take off at red-lights. Almost like someone with a gated manual just stalling their car out. I'm not sure if it's the added power on the SST, or if I'm getting compressor stall or what. But that was a new thing that happened to me today. Happened at least 2 or 3 times to be exact, so I dunno what in the crap is up with that. I'm sure the people behind me thought I was some idiot who couldn't drive a stick stalling my car, but when your automatic stalls out like a stick shift and your MIL light comes on you kind of scratch your head, then get a little nervous your hurting your brand new engine.

mlouis

iTrader: (6)

Hmm thats odd, I never had that problem after i installed my ETS intake. I also ran it without a tune for around 4 months and zero problems. However after i installed my 4" FMIC, I started to get some surge at 5th gear. Mind you it was at 2500 rpms though. I'm not too sure if it was because of the 4" or accelerating at low rpms in 5th. Anyways, I just got a custom tune and it seemed to fix whatever surge problems i had.

Also, just fyi the extra 45 whp just from a intake is very unlikely. The MR will also make 20-30whp less than a GSR with the exact same mods. I don't know if the 400whp you mentioned was your goal, but the only way to achieve that on a MR would be a turbo upgrade with e85.

Stonewall

Well as I said in my OP, my goal is getting around 400 AWHP without ripping the motor out, balancing and blueprinting it, and going all hog wild with mods and dropping around 10 grand in a 45k car that's hardly got 1,000 miles on it. I was looking to get there as cheaply and easily as possible, and AMS was trying their best to get me there that way. Originally I was just going to get the car, call AMS, have them come pick the car up, and have them put the 2.4 TDX package on it. But after seeing my car for the first time, and after paying for it, I couldn't bring myself to #1 spend that much more extra cash, and #2 see a brand new car get tore down apart like that. Even Larry at AMS said he hates to see new Evos come in and see them tore apart for the TDX package, but people do it. As for going the E-85 route, that's not for me. I've seen plenty of guys with Evos at tracks do wonders on pump gas, some running high 11 runs @ 130ish trap speeds. If anything I'd just slap a NOS kit in my car set up for a small 50HP shot boost and run the high-grade racing fuel the tracks sell.

I'm not sure where you're getting that the MR will make less HP than a GSR with the exact same mods. It's the exact same car, with the only major difference between the two cars being weight. That's only going to effect numbers in terms of run times, not mechanical gains. It's not like the GSR and MR have two different motors. The MR only being heavier because of the added Eibach Struts and Bilstein Springs and all the added suspension upgrades the GSR doesn't have stock, plus the added sound dampening equipment. Which is why they did what they could with weight reduction with the 2 piece front rotors and lighter BBS wheels. And if you're thinking it's ECU based between the two trims, I've got AMS's ECU flash on the car, so that's no worry either. I know on Edmunds and other review sites the time differences in 0-60 is measured in like tenths of a second between the two trim levels with the GSR edging over a bit. But like I said if they took off the way the guy who sold me the car showed me how to take off I doubt a GSR would edge out in front. The people at Edmunds probably just floored the SST instead of braking and gaining boost, then going, and the guy in the GSR probably sidestepped the clutch at 5k and there's your faster run time in favor of the GSR trim. The other added bonus in terms of run times is you'll never out-shift an SST unless you've got lightning fast feet and hands, but then your still looking at RPM loss from shifting, but this is another discussion for another place, so I digress.

I know in years past there used to be 3 trims, GSR, MR, MR-T, but they've sort of merged the touring with the MR around '12. But from what I've been told, Mitsubishi really reworked the '14 models, and even the guy who owned the dealership where I bought my car races professionally, does the Pike's Peak runs and everything, and owns 3 Evos (dude shows up to work in a huge white Limo so he's got the $$) He took me for a ride down a mountain to show me just what an Evo would do, and said he could do things in these '14 MRs that he couldn't do in previous models. One instance was kicking into S-sport, turning your AYB off, and holding the brake, revving to around 5k to spool up, then let off the brake (almost like sidestepping a clutch) and take off like a rocket. He said in previous models the car would just shut down and die and it would pop up turbo overheat on your display center, and the car would just sit there and idle for 30 seconds or so, whereas these new ones no longer do that. He just laughed and said "I wouldn't do it often, but if you get a Corvette up along side of you who thinks he's a hot shot, do this at a redlight and he'll go home crying." And I'll never forget the way he said that.

When I was on the phone with the two guys that were doing my car, one had a line of future mods lined up for me as I got up in the HP ranges; and I mean really getting up there: 500, 600, 700 HP ranges. High cap fuel pump, fuel rails, 1,000 CC injectors, their CBRD BBX Turbo, etc. The other was lining me up with my current mods, and I called him the other day and he wants the Cobb data logs to give to their in-house tuner, Chris, so he can look it over and see what my car is doing. Maybe that will give me some more insight as well. But they knew I was looking at their STX 400 package at first which on their page states after installation you can expect numbers in the 405 HP, 410 ft. lbs. of torque range. And Andrew said with what I've got on my car now I'm going to be coming close to that, not quite there, but close to what I'd be gaining with the STX 400 package. The only thing I don't have from the 400 package is the AMS intercooler and cat-back piping which I never planned on installing all of anyway. For some reason they make it out into a single-outlet pipe instead of utilizing the standard dual exhaust, so I was just going to hook up the larger piping and high-flow cat as far back as that went, and then ditch the last few pieces and leave the stock muffler and tips.

The only thing they're sketchy on with their website is whether its WHEEL HP or BRAKE HP, they kind of dance around that and leave it grey area unless you push them. Which I mentioned in my OP. I think the STX 400 package HP numbers is Brake HP and not at the wheel.

The 45 AWHP from their high performance intake is from AMS themselves, and actually says AWHP, not just 45 horse. And I doubt they're going to lie. Fudge their numbers a bit for sales purposes, maybe, but even on the phone they were adamant about the gains. And AMS hasn't built up their reputation by being liars that sell crappy low-grade equipment.

I even admittedly doubted that just a performance CAI could give those sort of gains. But if AMS is telling me that's what it's going to do, and that even running it in a car that's newer than an '08 without a map tune could cause engine damage it must be a pretty large difference. That and it's made in-house by the fabricators at AMS for the Evo X, and isn't just some standard CAI you'd go buy from Advanced Auto or something. It's a specialty piece made especially for this car, with two options to either use bungs to recirculate the air, or just vent to atmo. I went with the recirculating bungs which was an extra 50 bucks.

I know the Cobb has a built in Dyno feature but I doubt it's anywhere near accurate and just gives you a ballpark figure. I won't know what my car is actually putting out until I get it on a Dyno, it's just finding one around here I could use regularly and use to tune my car with that's going to be an issue.

shekaar

iTrader: (3)

OP, you do have the stock diverter valve, based on your engine pics. Compare it so a blow off valve by say, turbo smart. There is a place for the excess air to "blow off," where as in the stock piece, it jus re-circulates. With an intake, it absolutely makes a small pssssh sound. Trust me when I say, if you throw an actual BoV on there, even in 50/50 vent/recirc, you will know what I'm talking about. Not even close in noise levels.

I do have to agree with mlouis on his statement about MR vs GSR HP, to an extent. When I was having my car dyno'd, I asked what X's usually put down bone stock on his dyno. Generally, 220 whp for a GSR he said, where he has seen MR's come in putting down just under 200, also stock. Not sure why, but my tuner would have no reason to lie about it.

When you're talking about gains from an intake, even with a company like AMS, you really really have to look at what you're using to dyno your car. Dyno's can be calibrated completely differently, giving very different numbers. An example a friend of mine always uses (he just got rid of his 2012 Civic SI for a Focus ST), is that the Civic drivers he knew always went with a Dynojet. These are generally known to be generous in their HP numbers...like upwards of +50 over a Mustand dyno. This isn't to say they are all that extreme, but for a company to come out and say "•100+HP increase while maintaining reliability and drivability" as the STX 400 promises is kind of bogus. The only mod I don't have out of that package is the FMIC, and I am professionally dyno tuned (produces better numbers than an off the shelf generic map for a package), and I am at 300 awhp. FMIC don't add those kind of numbers themselves, so feel free to do the math, but don't go getting your hopes up for 400 awhp without building your engine and/or upgrading your turbo.

Stonewall

Yeah, as I said I'm familiar with the workings of a turbo, I just assumed the Evo came with a BOV. I'm not sure why Mitsu would just throw a recirculating valve on a car like that, makes no sense to me but obviously they have their reasons. I'll probably just pick up the BOV from AMS next month and toss that stock recirculating valve in my stock parts box I have in the cubby so if I ever have to take it in to the garage I can swap it back to stock the day before. As I said, when it comes to tuners, I'm new to the scene. I still own a 2010 Lancer ES, but that's a far cry from an Evo. The closest thing I have to a "tuner" is a 2008 Solstice GXP that's turbo'd, but I think I mentioned earlier its an '08 with all of 4,000 miles on it. I hardly ever drive it because I'm hoping someday it'll be a rare classic with Pontiac going belly up. My late father raced for the NHRA back in the early 80's up through to the early 90's, and I've been brought up more to accept the old school "Muscle" and that kind of crap, but that's just not me. So I've been raised around cars and know them inside and out, EXCEPT for the imports, because that's a new thing for me. I may as well be doing brain surgery when it comes to these compared to tuning up one of my dad's old dragsters. But honestly, I'll take an Evo over any other car on the road. In terms of performance to price ratio and the extent of modifications you can do with an Evo and the power you can get out of a little 4 banger, it's just astonishing.

As for the MR/GSR debate, saying flat out "GSR gets more Horsepower out of mods than the MR," I can't see it, nor go along with it. I'm sure it's been argued 100 times over, even the guy who races professionally where I bought mine who took me for a ride in my MR to show me how to actually drive an Evo the way it's meant to be driven said from his experience over the years, usually its the kids (or mommy and daddy FOR the kid) who come in and buy the GSR's to tune because they're generally cheaper and they can spend the extra money they saved and go buy a 4 grand turbo and all sorts of kits and stuff for their GSR, whereas the people who buy the MRs want a fast track car and a little more luxery. Regardless, it's the same car, same motors, same everything. Only difference is trim accessories. Only thing I could see is a slight difference in factory ECU and the way it's tuned for each trim level, but as I said my ECU is now running on AMS's custom flash for the Evo X, so that's a irrelevant issue. Only difference is weight due to trim level options, where the MR has all the extra suspension modifications thrown on it as well as sound dampening and that sort of crap because they mixed the MR and the MR-Touring trims at some point, which I hate. Can't even get a spoiler without spending $2,200 bucks at the dealership to buy one for yourself and slap it on your MR, which is what I'm having to do. And those types of things are only going to effect certain tests, turning times, handling, 0-60 due to the extra weight, skid pads, slalom, etc., not mechanical enhancements. 40 horse on a GSR is 40 Horse on an MR, EXCEPT, as I said every car is different, and what might give 40 horse on a GSR may give 30 on an MR, or it may be the other way around and give 40 on an MR and 30 on a GSR. Cars are very finicky things.

This is the most important thing, most people don't know this, some do, some are just oblivious to the fact, some refuse to except it and call BS. Every car that comes off the assembly line is different. You can take two brand spankin new cars fresh off the line, line them up, have them take off at exactly the same reaction time, have them shift exactly the same time, have everything match perfect, but one car is going to edge out over the other. For the sake of argument lets take a Camaro. You can take two brand new 2014 Camaro SS's with 0 miles on them fresh off the production line, roll them over to a dyno, and one will Dyno 20 horse and 35 torque higher than the other. That's why there's the Lemon Law. Sometimes you just get lucky and you end up buying a car that puts out slightly higher horsepower/torque than another car of the exact same make/model/year. Sometimes you buy a brand new car off the showroom floor and it turns out to be a complete hunk of crap, and you turn to the Lemon Law to get you a new vehicle. It's just the way things go. I'm not sure why it is, but it's the truth.


Anyways, at the moment I'm uploading a few videos I took yesterday to try and let you guys get a listen in on the sounds the thing is making. When I play them back directly on my computer I can hear it, but I'm not sure if there is going to be any sound degredation when I upload them and things are compressed, but hopefully you guys have a keen ear and someone can pick it out. Shekaar seemed to be having the same issue, and Zanelefko has been waiting for the videos to see if he can pick out any noises, so I'll post the links to those here are soon as they're finished uploading.

shekaar

iTrader: (3)

I'm glad to see you say that. I've been having the same argument with my buddy for months, who tells me every car is exactly the same from the factory. Unbelieveable that people think that way. It's the reason I tell him to get a dyno tune instead of relying on a package deal from a company made "for his car." Every car is different. Period. Sure, they made a map based on the same car as you, maybe even with the same parts, but that tune will not be as good for your car as a professional dyno tune.

Look forward to the video, hope we can get you some good information!

mlouis

iTrader: (6)

Don't mean to bash at all just giving you a heads up. The MR most definitely makes less hp and tq than a GSR will. If you look at the dyno sub-forum, you will see. I believe it looses power due to the transmission, I honestly would not be able to tell you why but this is what has been said and proven. Also, with the basic bolt-ons that most people seem to get(TBE, intake, uicp, fmic), you can do your own setup for a lot cheaper than the AMS stx400 package. Im not trying to call AMS out they make great products and have great customer service, but theres a theres a reason why people dont go with that package.

Stonewall

You just validated both our claims. There's different forms of horsepower, and I won't insult your intelligence by explaining it like you don't already know that. The SST of the MR is obviously going to take more HP to run, just like the CVT is a HP hog, and like a standard automatic of any regular family sedan is going to rob power compared to the same family sedan with a gated manual.

What you're not understanding is I'm talking about basic raw power: Brake horsepower. What the engine makes at the crank before any losses in power caused by the tranny, alternator, differential(s), water pump, auxiliary components, etc. An MR and a GSR will get the same gain in HP/Torque from whatever mod you put on it. But on a Dyno the MR might put out a little less HP because of the different gearbox, but I'd gladly trade a few horsepower for the ability to outshift 99% of the general population. Very few people are going to be able to keep up with the shifting speed of a twin clutch tranny when they're in a gated manual, and usually the people that can are the ones you see on TV with big name sponsors because it's what they do for a living. In all honesty, I've got all I need to send every-day Joe "Billy Badass" in his Corvette home crying because a little Japanese import knocked the socks off his 80 grand Corvette. I don't need a clutch and a gated manual to do it.

When I'm road racing on a course, having fun on the mountainous two-lane state roads where I live, or drag racing, I'll gladly take the ability shift to the next gear with the throttle wide open and never having to let off the gas over having to take my foot off the gas, depress the clutch, loose RPM/momentum/boost (unless that person is running an anti-lag system and then have fun replacing that turbo every time you change the oil), change gears, and get back into the throttle and regain what you lost, even if it's only a slight loss they start to add up, and that's where the slightly less HP of the MR starts to either catch back up, or pull ahead.

Because that slight loss is where the slightly less HP of the MR will stick right with a GSR. Those tenths of a second start to add up. Or if you're double-clutching for whatever reason, (unless you've practiced it and got it down pat and can do it in the blink of an eye), take your foot of the gas, depress the clutch, shift to neutral, match the engine RPM to the gear RPM, depress the clutch again, change gears, release clutch, and get back into throttle. Again, I go back to my previous statement of gladly sacrificing a little horsepower to be able to not have to take my foot off the throttle to shift gears.

Unless you're just a die-hard dragster who is worried about every single HP gain he can get, and the kind that looses sleep over not getting that extra tenth of a second, or even thousandths of a second on a 1/4 or 1/8th run, the GSR and MR are just about equal, with each having their pros and cons. The GSR may be a better (or easier) option to go with if you want to make a pure drag car out of an Evo, but a road course, sharp turns, and mountain terrain is where the Evo shines, as that's where it's Rally heritage comes from, and that's what the MR is built for. So even though if I'm racing a GSR that's equal enough in power to mine that we can race heads up, he might slightly claim the top spot in a drag race, but all the guy has to do is slightly screw up and the win is mine. And the GSR just won't handle like an MR without putting some money down and buying all those added suspension upgrades the MR comes with standard. Which to me, the Evo is a road car, made for road racing. And yeah, Evos can be really fast in a straight line thanks to that S-AWD and instead of spinning or fishtailing just taking off like it's nothing, but it's even faster on a curved line, which to me, I've done my share of dragging, and I have much more fun on a road course.

But in the end they both come out to be about equal when it comes down to it. Some might completely say I'm an idiot for claiming that, but that's their right to have a different opinion. For me, the MR is just fine and I'm not going to shutter in fear if a GSR revs his engine at me. Most people just snuff their noses at an MR (or any car without a gated manual) because their either still a kid, or still have that little immature streak in them and thinks sidesteping a clutch at high RPM is the only way to have fun and any car without a gated manual is a wasted car. And I don't mean to say you're one of those people by any means, I just mean to say those types of people are out there, and they're out there in droves.

I've shifted enough gears in my life that I could care less if I ever shifted another. That and I've got a birth defect that effects my hips and shifting gears isn't exactly on my fun-list. Having a stick shift is fun and all when you're young and you like to rev your car up and sidestep the clutch and burn rubber, or feel some G's thrown on you, or just fiddle around with gears and have the control of what gear your car is in, but with the SST you've got the best of both worlds. I've been in bumper to bumper traffic for hours on end because of either rush hour backup, a bad accident, etc., and shifting those gears starts to get real old after about 4 hours of bumper to bumper traffic, or 10 years of gear shifting. Especially when some idiot is 1/2 inch off your bumper and you're on a hill and if you roll back even a quarter of an inch you'll hit the moron who doesn't know how to give the car ahead of them a little breathing space. Things like that get tiresome as you get older. With the SST, if I want to cruise around, I have an automatic, if I want to get serious and down to business, I just throw it into S-Sport and turn off the AYB and off I go just like I've got a manual. To me, I'd gladly sacrifice a little horsepower for that added feature. And with the SST you don't have to worry about the time it takes to shift, or if you miss a gear, or mistime your shift, etc. Those mistakes add up on a lapped road course, and especially on a quarter, and with the SST you don't have to worry about it.

Everyone has their own driving style and their own opinions, and they evolve over time just as you as a person evolve over time.

That being said, I was really busy today and I'm still working on trying to pick out the best of these videos and get them uploaded to Tinypic, but hopefully either by tonight or tomorrow morning I'll have them up and you can finally (hopefully) hear what I'm talking about.