View Poll Results: What should be the target boosted / wheel horsepower level? (Dyno Dynamics)
170 whp Keep it modest
4
6.56%
210 whp Comparable to the RalliArt Spec
33
54.10%
245 whp Match the EVO X
20
32.79%
Dont Do it, your bastardizing the lancer
4
6.56%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll
~~~ Project : Dark Falcon > Continuous Boost CVT
May 17, 2008, 09:36 PM
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~~~ Project : Dark Falcon > Continuous Boost CVT
~~~ Project : Dark Falcon >>> Continuous Boost CVT
I have decided to advance my Boost project for the CVT earlier than I anticipated since I have been getting flooded with emails and PM messages with questions about the CVT and its boost applications. I hope this post / project will help those who seek to realize the dream of applying boost / Turbo power to our N/A 4B11 and 4B12 engines. I have shared some concerns and thoughts in other threads such as "beware of heat", and also understanding how CVTs work. More recently I have posted a URL that leads back to Mitsubishi in their technology papers as they explain some of the problems they had to overcome with this type of transmission. That thread can be found here https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=344784 called Mitsu article - CVT Drivetrain Vibration Analysis and ACS Design (2005)
That said, a lot of my knowledge comes from experience, I am no expert, but I have been involved in a few interesting situations that allow me to say that I have walked the walk when it comes to trial and error. Especially involving combustion, when things go wrong, I like to call them “thermal events”, I have seen pistons thru hoods, boost setups fail, fire, and the occasional, all day of hard work and having the car not start at all, Fun trying to figure that out (off topic). Getting straight to the point here, I personally believe CVT transmissions in theory are great platforms when using boost. The ideal is continuous power can be applied without having the need to let off the gas for any shift change. For those who just love the blow off valve sound, you may be a little upset. The problem is, since a CVT is more machine than human oriented, there are certain electronic programming issues to overcome as well as daunting hardware limitations. These issues, can cause poor performance and failure if they are not taken into consideration for your boost project. Now this is my own opinion, I am no employee of Mitsubishi, nore do I make boost systems for a living. A lot of my information comes from asking questions with the experts around me who have experience in their respective field.
~~~ Where to start? Up the brakes, find a good plumber, and figure out this CVT
Boost applications isn’t my strong suit, I live in a N.A. world where things are simple. Yeah its slower, but it works, its worked for over 100 years. I look to some of my friends in Japan and locals to help fill in the blanks when answering the basic questions. What kind of turbo, how big, whats the layout, can the internals handle it. Some questions could be answered by the pros, the ones that couldn’t, require a lot of calling, of the long distance kind half way around the world, and I can promise you my Japanese hasn’t improved. But before we tackle the boost specifics, its important to take care of the most important element of all. Your brakes!,
There is a saying out there, Power is nothing without control, or other versions of the same thing. The point is, within an increase in engine output, you have to be able to keep it on a leash. If not, your brakes could potentially fail, or for sure wear a lot faster. Bottom line, if your going to fork 5000 grand over on a turbo kit, what’s another 1500 on your brakes. If you are running a non GTS car, I would think about making that leap as a bare minimum. If you can bring your hardware up to the same caliber to the EVO, with top quality rotors and pads, that could mean the difference between you saying 1) wow what a nice drive, lets do it again! 2) its only been 12000 miles, WTF happened to my pads and rotors. The one thing that kills your brakes is heat, and an increase in power is definitely going to wear on your brakes faster. Modifying your braking habits does help, pulse braking, which is firm stomps on your brakes to decelerate in multiple applications. This vs. constantly holding your brakes until you come to a full stop can do wonders to increase the life of your rotors. A recurring theme in this thread will be, HEAT is the enemy.
Moving to finding a plumber, before I even start this project I want to make sure I have the people and resources I can depend on, when things don’t go according to plan. (another common theme) A CVT which I commented on in one of my other thread posts, is a second brain inside your Lancer. Your CVT works directly with your Engine. The human driver almost means nothing. Once the car is in Drive or Reverse, everything is turned over to the CVT to work out the most fuel efficient gear ratio to operate in. My previous description went like this….
“The CVT is kind of like a hero's useful sidekick that sometimes can get in the way. What I mean by that is, Mitsubishi has designed this new lancer with a transmission that observes the drivers and attempts to anticipate what the driver wants based on how he drives.
Here is an example that will make the point clear. The software monitors a driver that is for the most part passive = aka grand ma. the software watches how you accelerate, monitors how often you use the breaks and profiles you. Now lets say at a stop light, she switches seats with her 16 year old grandson Billy that drives like a maniac. If the car is in D mode (automatic variable) this car is not gonna want to drive the way he wants, that transmission is going to work counter to what his habits are, at least for the short term until the software adapts itself to how the new driver drives.”
As you can see, this is already becoming complicated. A self aware Transmission means, that if the conditions aren’t right, its entirely possible that the transmission can limit or call foul to your Engines ECU and thus limit performance.
~~~ So how much boost are we talking about here?
Well in theory, your as strong as your weakest link. What are the links? You have …
1. The pulley system
2. The metal belt used in that pulley system
3. Valves used to control the pulley system (that add or take away line pressure to increase or decrease the pulley sizes)
4. Heat, Heat, Heat
Heat is the unknown factor. No one knows the for sure, what is the limit of the CVT. Good friends of mine in Japan have attempted to build a boost CVT along time ago and have slowly dropped hints on things to watch out for. Heat being one of them, and if you think about it you can figure out very quickly why. The use of boost will increase the torque pressures that are being transferred to the transmission. Where the stress comes into play is with the continuously variable part. Underscoring the continuously! At this time, its been advised to completely disable the CVT transmission’s D mode function and only use the Sport mode. Now for those who are not likely where this is going, don’t lose heart just yet. There maybe options in the near future that can make this more interesting.
Currently the Lancer’s cvt is programmed with 6 fixed ratio points. But since they are only programmed points, we can in theory choose our own ratio points. We also can increase or decrease how many fixed gears we want. We can have 7 we can have 5. We can copy the gear ratios of the EVO X GSR 5M or the MR 6SST. The options are unlimited.
The point is, at this point in high boost operation, using a fixed gear system is one way to keep your transmissions health under control. Another hint dropped to me is to look into a higher quality transmission fluid. Everyone I asked on the subject, especially with import cars and performance, everyone pointed to ENEOS http://www.eneos.us/ a well known oil company specializing in, you guessed it, automotive lubricants. ENEOS is Nippon Oil.
~~~Whats ENEOS’s CVT fluid blurb / spin
There general statements about their product can be found on their CVT fluid page http://www.eneos.us/products.php?pk=8 . But the stuff that is really relevant to the heat and wear issue is here below.
1. Excellent Metal Friction Characteristics
CVTs use metal belts and pulleys in place of the torque converters used in regular automatic transmissions, and it is the friction between those belts and pulleys that conveys the power. Because ENEOS CVT Fluid is made from a well-balanced blend of metallic detergents, ashless dispersants, extreme-pressure agents, friction modifiers, and other additives, it prevents wear at the metal-metal contact points on the belts and pulleys.
2. Compatible with All Types of Automobiles with Metal-Belt CVTs
CVT fluids require good torque transfer capacity between metal components as well as good antishudder performance, but improving the antishudder performance usually requires a sacrifice in the metal-metal torque transfer. Now Nippon Oil has developed new technology for providing a high level of both torque transfer and antishudder. ENEOS CVT Fluid performs superbly in both areas in the metal-belt CVT vehicles made by all manufacturers.
Now comes the very important part, at the bottom of the page, the company claims compatibility with ATF-SP III Fluid as specified by Mitsubishi, But if you watch the Mitsubishi Trainning video for servicing the CVT transmission, the put a warning in clear print
“Caution!!!! Only CVT1 Fluid designated ATF J1 must be used in Transaxle. Even 1 qt. of any other type of ATF will cause immediate Transaxle Failure”
In other words, Don’t F with the fluid or you, your car, and first born, are dead. Well that’s the drift I got from it. The video can be watched here http://paultan.org/archives/2007/07/...w-4b11-engine/ .
So the question is, does this fluid meet the manufacturer’s high standards. Its entirely possible that this could be the same oil? Nippon oil I think speaks of OEM applications. In any case, further review is needed and I will make the calls to figure it out. Also there are other fluid makers that make CVT fluids. I don’t vouch for nore endorse this product at this time. Wait for a formal review, or PM me.
I only mention it to further the discussion.
~~~ Project details
I have been approached by a firm to help on a project that is not exactly related, but they have agreed to make certain resources available in the summer time to help with this boost project. The goal is to get a stable CVT Turbo up and running. And at the same time deal with some of the electronic hurdles that are in the way. Such as the CVT’s anti vibration behaviours, and its sensitive nature about belt slippage in continuously variable D mode operation.
Its late, I am tired, I will finish this post when the oxygen has come back to my brain.
Cheers
I have decided to advance my Boost project for the CVT earlier than I anticipated since I have been getting flooded with emails and PM messages with questions about the CVT and its boost applications. I hope this post / project will help those who seek to realize the dream of applying boost / Turbo power to our N/A 4B11 and 4B12 engines. I have shared some concerns and thoughts in other threads such as "beware of heat", and also understanding how CVTs work. More recently I have posted a URL that leads back to Mitsubishi in their technology papers as they explain some of the problems they had to overcome with this type of transmission. That thread can be found here https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=344784 called Mitsu article - CVT Drivetrain Vibration Analysis and ACS Design (2005)
That said, a lot of my knowledge comes from experience, I am no expert, but I have been involved in a few interesting situations that allow me to say that I have walked the walk when it comes to trial and error. Especially involving combustion, when things go wrong, I like to call them “thermal events”, I have seen pistons thru hoods, boost setups fail, fire, and the occasional, all day of hard work and having the car not start at all, Fun trying to figure that out (off topic). Getting straight to the point here, I personally believe CVT transmissions in theory are great platforms when using boost. The ideal is continuous power can be applied without having the need to let off the gas for any shift change. For those who just love the blow off valve sound, you may be a little upset. The problem is, since a CVT is more machine than human oriented, there are certain electronic programming issues to overcome as well as daunting hardware limitations. These issues, can cause poor performance and failure if they are not taken into consideration for your boost project. Now this is my own opinion, I am no employee of Mitsubishi, nore do I make boost systems for a living. A lot of my information comes from asking questions with the experts around me who have experience in their respective field.
~~~ Where to start? Up the brakes, find a good plumber, and figure out this CVT
Boost applications isn’t my strong suit, I live in a N.A. world where things are simple. Yeah its slower, but it works, its worked for over 100 years. I look to some of my friends in Japan and locals to help fill in the blanks when answering the basic questions. What kind of turbo, how big, whats the layout, can the internals handle it. Some questions could be answered by the pros, the ones that couldn’t, require a lot of calling, of the long distance kind half way around the world, and I can promise you my Japanese hasn’t improved. But before we tackle the boost specifics, its important to take care of the most important element of all. Your brakes!,
There is a saying out there, Power is nothing without control, or other versions of the same thing. The point is, within an increase in engine output, you have to be able to keep it on a leash. If not, your brakes could potentially fail, or for sure wear a lot faster. Bottom line, if your going to fork 5000 grand over on a turbo kit, what’s another 1500 on your brakes. If you are running a non GTS car, I would think about making that leap as a bare minimum. If you can bring your hardware up to the same caliber to the EVO, with top quality rotors and pads, that could mean the difference between you saying 1) wow what a nice drive, lets do it again! 2) its only been 12000 miles, WTF happened to my pads and rotors. The one thing that kills your brakes is heat, and an increase in power is definitely going to wear on your brakes faster. Modifying your braking habits does help, pulse braking, which is firm stomps on your brakes to decelerate in multiple applications. This vs. constantly holding your brakes until you come to a full stop can do wonders to increase the life of your rotors. A recurring theme in this thread will be, HEAT is the enemy.
Moving to finding a plumber, before I even start this project I want to make sure I have the people and resources I can depend on, when things don’t go according to plan. (another common theme) A CVT which I commented on in one of my other thread posts, is a second brain inside your Lancer. Your CVT works directly with your Engine. The human driver almost means nothing. Once the car is in Drive or Reverse, everything is turned over to the CVT to work out the most fuel efficient gear ratio to operate in. My previous description went like this….
“The CVT is kind of like a hero's useful sidekick that sometimes can get in the way. What I mean by that is, Mitsubishi has designed this new lancer with a transmission that observes the drivers and attempts to anticipate what the driver wants based on how he drives.
Here is an example that will make the point clear. The software monitors a driver that is for the most part passive = aka grand ma. the software watches how you accelerate, monitors how often you use the breaks and profiles you. Now lets say at a stop light, she switches seats with her 16 year old grandson Billy that drives like a maniac. If the car is in D mode (automatic variable) this car is not gonna want to drive the way he wants, that transmission is going to work counter to what his habits are, at least for the short term until the software adapts itself to how the new driver drives.”
As you can see, this is already becoming complicated. A self aware Transmission means, that if the conditions aren’t right, its entirely possible that the transmission can limit or call foul to your Engines ECU and thus limit performance.
~~~ So how much boost are we talking about here?
Well in theory, your as strong as your weakest link. What are the links? You have …
1. The pulley system
2. The metal belt used in that pulley system
3. Valves used to control the pulley system (that add or take away line pressure to increase or decrease the pulley sizes)
4. Heat, Heat, Heat
Heat is the unknown factor. No one knows the for sure, what is the limit of the CVT. Good friends of mine in Japan have attempted to build a boost CVT along time ago and have slowly dropped hints on things to watch out for. Heat being one of them, and if you think about it you can figure out very quickly why. The use of boost will increase the torque pressures that are being transferred to the transmission. Where the stress comes into play is with the continuously variable part. Underscoring the continuously! At this time, its been advised to completely disable the CVT transmission’s D mode function and only use the Sport mode. Now for those who are not likely where this is going, don’t lose heart just yet. There maybe options in the near future that can make this more interesting.
Currently the Lancer’s cvt is programmed with 6 fixed ratio points. But since they are only programmed points, we can in theory choose our own ratio points. We also can increase or decrease how many fixed gears we want. We can have 7 we can have 5. We can copy the gear ratios of the EVO X GSR 5M or the MR 6SST. The options are unlimited.
The point is, at this point in high boost operation, using a fixed gear system is one way to keep your transmissions health under control. Another hint dropped to me is to look into a higher quality transmission fluid. Everyone I asked on the subject, especially with import cars and performance, everyone pointed to ENEOS http://www.eneos.us/ a well known oil company specializing in, you guessed it, automotive lubricants. ENEOS is Nippon Oil.
~~~Whats ENEOS’s CVT fluid blurb / spin
There general statements about their product can be found on their CVT fluid page http://www.eneos.us/products.php?pk=8 . But the stuff that is really relevant to the heat and wear issue is here below.
1. Excellent Metal Friction Characteristics
CVTs use metal belts and pulleys in place of the torque converters used in regular automatic transmissions, and it is the friction between those belts and pulleys that conveys the power. Because ENEOS CVT Fluid is made from a well-balanced blend of metallic detergents, ashless dispersants, extreme-pressure agents, friction modifiers, and other additives, it prevents wear at the metal-metal contact points on the belts and pulleys.
2. Compatible with All Types of Automobiles with Metal-Belt CVTs
CVT fluids require good torque transfer capacity between metal components as well as good antishudder performance, but improving the antishudder performance usually requires a sacrifice in the metal-metal torque transfer. Now Nippon Oil has developed new technology for providing a high level of both torque transfer and antishudder. ENEOS CVT Fluid performs superbly in both areas in the metal-belt CVT vehicles made by all manufacturers.
Now comes the very important part, at the bottom of the page, the company claims compatibility with ATF-SP III Fluid as specified by Mitsubishi, But if you watch the Mitsubishi Trainning video for servicing the CVT transmission, the put a warning in clear print
“Caution!!!! Only CVT1 Fluid designated ATF J1 must be used in Transaxle. Even 1 qt. of any other type of ATF will cause immediate Transaxle Failure”
In other words, Don’t F with the fluid or you, your car, and first born, are dead. Well that’s the drift I got from it. The video can be watched here http://paultan.org/archives/2007/07/...w-4b11-engine/ .
So the question is, does this fluid meet the manufacturer’s high standards. Its entirely possible that this could be the same oil? Nippon oil I think speaks of OEM applications. In any case, further review is needed and I will make the calls to figure it out. Also there are other fluid makers that make CVT fluids. I don’t vouch for nore endorse this product at this time. Wait for a formal review, or PM me.
I only mention it to further the discussion.
~~~ Project details
I have been approached by a firm to help on a project that is not exactly related, but they have agreed to make certain resources available in the summer time to help with this boost project. The goal is to get a stable CVT Turbo up and running. And at the same time deal with some of the electronic hurdles that are in the way. Such as the CVT’s anti vibration behaviours, and its sensitive nature about belt slippage in continuously variable D mode operation.
Its late, I am tired, I will finish this post when the oxygen has come back to my brain.
Cheers
Last edited by evo_soul; May 17, 2008 at 09:52 PM.
May 17, 2008, 09:48 PM
#3
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to be honest, I havent worked with the DE or ES, but to some degree its not really going to be important in the future. A CVT controller aka piggyback would deal with the shift points. Its still the same CVT its only software that dictates the shift points for fixed positions
Last edited by evo_soul; May 17, 2008 at 10:31 PM.
May 17, 2008, 10:02 PM
#4
Evolving Member
The Es and DE CVT cars only have the D mode option, they don't have the paddle shifters or the sports "tiptronic" mode.
I'm glad to see people seriously considering boosting the CVT, and Evo_soul seems like the perfect guy to try and master the secret ancient art that is the cvt transmission. I say aim high, try to boost it as much as you safely and reliably can. Aim for 245 WHP or more, but don't be disappointed if you only get to 220 or 210.
Best of luck to you, a lot of people hope you do well.
And as far as shifting de and es models, will you have the piggy back automatically shift for you, or have some kind of external controller that lets the driver control shift points?
Edit: one other concern I have is how to have that much power and still keep traction. Any idea's on a LSD type device for a CVT transmission? Or could you electronically limit the torque going to the wheels by programming the CVT (I remember reading that mitsubishi somehow coded the CVT ECU to tell the engine ECU to lower the torque by up to 40%) and gradually raise the torque until it reaches it's peak? (lol its late, I know I don't make much sense, ill edit it tomorrow when im more awake to make more sense.)
I'm glad to see people seriously considering boosting the CVT, and Evo_soul seems like the perfect guy to try and master the secret ancient art that is the cvt transmission. I say aim high, try to boost it as much as you safely and reliably can. Aim for 245 WHP or more, but don't be disappointed if you only get to 220 or 210.
Best of luck to you, a lot of people hope you do well.
And as far as shifting de and es models, will you have the piggy back automatically shift for you, or have some kind of external controller that lets the driver control shift points?
Edit: one other concern I have is how to have that much power and still keep traction. Any idea's on a LSD type device for a CVT transmission? Or could you electronically limit the torque going to the wheels by programming the CVT (I remember reading that mitsubishi somehow coded the CVT ECU to tell the engine ECU to lower the torque by up to 40%) and gradually raise the torque until it reaches it's peak? (lol its late, I know I don't make much sense, ill edit it tomorrow when im more awake to make more sense.)
Last edited by Bladed; May 17, 2008 at 10:13 PM.
May 17, 2008, 10:39 PM
#5
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I think the CVT is instructing the ECU to limit power. This would explain why the dyno rating is about 10 points lower in both HP and TQ then the Manual transaxle. base on the reading and a bit of guessing, their is a anti vibration programing that probably works to ensure a stable ride. The guess is it can be disabled.
Everything about the CVT is an interesting mystery. The reason why I dont want to aim high is, I am not looking to push my luck. With project car 2, the girlfriend has already crashed it twice. luckly no engine or mechancial damage, but could be a sign from the tuning gods to go easy.
Also I am concerned about traction. idealy, this maybe something worth doing on a touring edition 2009 GTS which has traction and stability control. the cost of LSD is not cheap. So I am not sure I want to boost to the moon. The goal is to prove it can be done. Not how fast I can burn down the car lol. Assuming nothing goes wrong with my pulstar testing and bodykit reviews, I should be able to get started on this project as well as buy the RalliArt and begin developing exhaust projects for that. If things dont go as planned, I will turn the project over to a vendor or 3rd party for them to carry forward.
Also, there are other firms doing the same thing, so I am sure you will see boost cars out there.
Everything about the CVT is an interesting mystery. The reason why I dont want to aim high is, I am not looking to push my luck. With project car 2, the girlfriend has already crashed it twice. luckly no engine or mechancial damage, but could be a sign from the tuning gods to go easy.
Also I am concerned about traction. idealy, this maybe something worth doing on a touring edition 2009 GTS which has traction and stability control. the cost of LSD is not cheap. So I am not sure I want to boost to the moon. The goal is to prove it can be done. Not how fast I can burn down the car lol. Assuming nothing goes wrong with my pulstar testing and bodykit reviews, I should be able to get started on this project as well as buy the RalliArt and begin developing exhaust projects for that. If things dont go as planned, I will turn the project over to a vendor or 3rd party for them to carry forward.
Also, there are other firms doing the same thing, so I am sure you will see boost cars out there.
The Es and DE CVT cars only have the D mode option, they don't have the paddle shifters or the sports "tiptronic" mode.
I'm glad to see people seriously considering boosting the CVT, and Evo_soul seems like the perfect guy to try and master the secret ancient art that is the cvt transmission. I say aim high, try to boost it as much as you safely and reliably can. Aim for 245 WHP or more, but don't be disappointed if you only get to 220 or 210.
Best of luck to you, a lot of people hope you do well.
And as far as shifting de and es models, will you have the piggy back automatically shift for you, or have some kind of external controller that lets the driver control shift points?
Edit: one other concern I have is how to have that much power and still keep traction. Any idea's on a LSD type device for a CVT transmission? Or could you electronically limit the torque going to the wheels by programming the CVT (I remember reading that mitsubishi somehow coded the CVT ECU to tell the engine ECU to lower the torque by up to 40%) and gradually raise the torque until it reaches it's peak? (lol its late, I know I don't make much sense, ill edit it tomorrow when im more awake to make more sense.)
I'm glad to see people seriously considering boosting the CVT, and Evo_soul seems like the perfect guy to try and master the secret ancient art that is the cvt transmission. I say aim high, try to boost it as much as you safely and reliably can. Aim for 245 WHP or more, but don't be disappointed if you only get to 220 or 210.
Best of luck to you, a lot of people hope you do well.
And as far as shifting de and es models, will you have the piggy back automatically shift for you, or have some kind of external controller that lets the driver control shift points?
Edit: one other concern I have is how to have that much power and still keep traction. Any idea's on a LSD type device for a CVT transmission? Or could you electronically limit the torque going to the wheels by programming the CVT (I remember reading that mitsubishi somehow coded the CVT ECU to tell the engine ECU to lower the torque by up to 40%) and gradually raise the torque until it reaches it's peak? (lol its late, I know I don't make much sense, ill edit it tomorrow when im more awake to make more sense.)
Last edited by evo_soul; May 18, 2008 at 01:15 AM.
May 18, 2008, 11:26 AM
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no offense, but doesn't RRM have a CVT turbo in development? what's the purpose of trial and error when others have done so already? i don't expect RRM to tell you their secrets but wouldn't it be wise to talk to them about what they already know and how that can help you? provided they're open enough to talk to you.
good luck
good luck
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May 18, 2008, 01:10 PM
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no offense, but doesn't RRM have a CVT turbo in development? what's the purpose of trial and error when others have done so already? i don't expect RRM to tell you their secrets but wouldn't it be wise to talk to them about what they already know and how that can help you? provided they're open enough to talk to you.
good luck
good luck
Think of it as an open source project. But if RRM or any other firm were interested in working together I am entirely open to the idea
I envy Rock, he gets to do the fun stuff like trial and error all day. Its fun plus I wish I had the availible resources. They have been in the game for a long time and know what they are doing. I am sure they will complete their Turbo in no time
Last edited by evo_soul; May 18, 2008 at 01:17 PM.
May 18, 2008, 03:08 PM
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For those who are just so well versed in Japanese, feel free to watch the demonstration video released by the manufacturer of the transmission in action. Now of course I am sure you can read Japanese, but the demonstration gives you a better idea of what its operation is like
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=ABaJid...eature=related
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=ABaJid...eature=related
May 19, 2008, 03:41 PM
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no offense, but doesn't RRM have a CVT turbo in development? what's the purpose of trial and error when others have done so already? i don't expect RRM to tell you their secrets but wouldn't it be wise to talk to them about what they already know and how that can help you? provided they're open enough to talk to you.
good luck
good luck
People can make amazing projects without vendor support. I'd mention HobieKopek (who didn't like RRM's kit and DIYed his own), but his car is a well-known nightmare beast since he blew the motor.
May 19, 2008, 11:35 PM
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PLEASE do not fall into the trap of thinking that only vendors can do things. The 02-60 Lancer suffered from "if it's not from RRM, I don't care" problem.
People can make amazing projects without vendor support. I'd mention HobieKopek (who didn't like RRM's kit and DIYed his own), but his car is a well-known nightmare beast since he blew the motor.
People can make amazing projects without vendor support. I'd mention HobieKopek (who didn't like RRM's kit and DIYed his own), but his car is a well-known nightmare beast since he blew the motor.
let RRM be the guinea pig so to speak...
. So they can have thier boosted CVT's. By the way did you ever get your bumpers fixed?
May 20, 2008, 09:30 PM
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no that isn't what i was getting at. what i meant was why blaze trails that have already been paved? a big part of this is the electronics of the CVT. unless evosoul has connections/access to the resources that a company like RRM may have, don't start from scratch. see what things RRM did "right" for you personally and learn how you can change/tweak it to your own liking with a custom kit.
let RRM be the guinea pig so to speak...
let RRM be the guinea pig so to speak...
May 21, 2008, 06:41 AM
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back to further a performance edge.
Last edited by Kurt; May 21, 2008 at 07:40 AM.
