I cant convince myself to sink money into other mods when the main power gain would be produced with greater compression.
Has anyone considered adding material to the combustion chamber or decking the head to gain compression? I dont think timing would be thrown too much from decking.

Just a thought.

 

Well if its stock, you'd probably want to start off with basic breathing mods to get the car up and running i.e cai, udp, exhaust and/or basic bolt-ons.

Yes, the power would be in the head but that will only be greatly compensated with the basic bolt-ons.

 

To my knowledge, no, nobody has tried decking the head, only the other way around (decompression head gasket.) There really isn't anyone who's gotten serious with an NA engine on this car, to my knowledge.

Many people just haven't wanted to invest in building a fast NA car due to cost. Until (if) we're able to flash our ECU, you would need to go stand-alone, because you'll want full control of everything. Also, if you're going to build the engine, you'd want to remove/increase the rev limiter.

I do believe our engine can be made to make good power without forced induction, I'm just not sure it can be done cheaply without being able to do your own machine work or having a shop hook-up.

My off-the-top-of-my-head to-do list for fast NA:
Port, polish, and build up the head
Cam (duh)
Larger throttle body
Ported IM, matched to new throttle body
Increase compression
Forged pistons/rods (good idea with higher compression, plus it'll let you spray more later)
Eliminate balance shaft
Eliminate A/C
Stand-alone engine management
Lose weight anywhere possible
Long-tube header, free-flowing exhaust

 

^ Migueralliart would come close!

 

there was one person who went full out N/A with a decked head and everything a few years ago. never really came onto the boards til after he changed and went turbo. i believe he hit low 14's, maybe high 13's.

 

I forgot headstuds, but that should be an obvious mod for anyone who removes their head for anything, even if just for the sake of longevity.

 

I think our engines can put very good ## to the wheels, woth out having to invest so much $$ on it, BUT we cant because no one cares about OUR cars, so theres no one who can reflash our ecu's, and that SUCKS

Im sure a 4g69 with:
-CAI
-Header
-Underdrive pulley
-2.5 Exhaust
-no balance shafts
-little more compression (milling the head, or a thinner head gasket, or making the chambers smaller)
-Good headwork and Intake M. work, bigger trottle
-a Good cam that at least we can rev up to 7500
-and a good way to program the car on a dyno

Im sure im talking about a engine that can HIT 215whp, thats good enough to run 13 on our cars on street tires

WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING PEOPLE, COME ON, TALK TO EVERY EVO TUNNER, GO AND ASK TO ANYONE YOU THINK CAN HELP US, WE CANT JUST STAY LIKE THIS FOREVER, IF WE WANT TO PUT OUR CARS ON THE MAP, WE HAVE TO FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN REFLASH OR DO SOMETHING TO OUR ECUS.

Currently we only have piggybacks and that sucks, by example you can put millons of $$ on a honda and have a piggyback to tune it, i will never run like its supposed to be, until you put a HONDATA or you chip your ecu.

 

Sorry, you would hit more than 215WHP with that setup.

 

theres a guy in this forum who does ECUFLASH!he even showed the Mapping of it

 

Unfortunately, our problem isn't a lack of willing tuners. We need a programmer to attack the problem, first, and there's very few of those. Once the right person has time and a RA to work on, they could probably crack and be able to flash the ECU within a day. We would just have to double-check the definitions.

 

I got a PM from MJ the other day, I haven't had time to review it with my buddy yet but when I get the time I will let everyone know what we find out

BTW, if you know anything about programming and would like a copy of said PM let me know. if you don't have a good background in programming don't bother, I barely understood half the PM

 

i know im just been "conservative" if thats a word, hehehe

 

You would need one hell of a launch and with how torquey the 4G69 engine is, im sure you'll be spinning and ghost riding the whip, . To be honest, 215whp is good enough for low 14's, maybe high 13's but it depends on the launch. Once the ralliart gets traction she is a breeze.

 

Mine is a HE

 

Put your thinking cap on a for a while and do a little reading about the 2.2L in the S2000.

The car is able to make decent power (230ish HP and 160ish Ft.LBS of TQ I think ?), but it takes a compression ratio of 11:1......not very 'pump gas' friendly for the most part once you get up that high.

Now I am not saying that the S2000's 2.2 should be the model that you base all of your theory on, because of Honda's engine design with a bigger bore and smaller stroke (where their torque suffers as well from the short stroke) but just consider.......11:1......in the real world, not that 'street' friendly at all.

In the SBC world, the Honda engine designs could be compared to engines such as the GM 302, 327 and 283 - big bore, small stroke = high reving, making power UP HIGH in the RPM band and loosing alot of torque in the process. Guys built custom DE-STROKERS for this application (the 377 ? opposite of a 383 Stroker, as it's a 400 Block with a 350 Crank, rather than a 350 block with a 400 Crank )

For instance, take a 300HP 350 that runs 9.5:1 and raise the compression up to 10.5:1. You MIGHT see HP gains of MAYBE 20HP on that alone and would have to COMPLIMENT that change with supporting MODS such as CAM, Fuel and Timing.

I don't think that high compression is going to yield impressive gains for LOW cash. A High Compression N/A motor might be nearly as expensive to build as an F/I'd motor at the end of the day with LESS POWER than the Forced Induction engine.

This is ofcourse relating to what I know.....V8's....and also knowing that power in a 4Cyl is WAY MORE EXPENSIVE to build than a V8 by the time you get everything just right.

I would say that for the money, FI the car because it's cheaper and less downtime with the car, safer (if tuned) and more streetable.
With the amount of work alone to prep a high compresion N/A motor, you could get away by slapping on FI, a decompression head gasket if needed and call it a day - WITH MORE POWER and the reliability to match - and the ability to 'de-tune' the car if needed QUICKLY.

Just my 2 cents.
Allan