The topic pretty much says it all. I'm fortunate enough to have an E85 station a few miles away from my house, and its pretty obvious that more are going to spring up. Prices have been falling, which can't be said about good old gas. Oh yea, and on average, after a conversion, a power increase of 5-10% is observed. And it allows for higher boost due to intrinsically higher octane ratings (not that i'm effected by this at the moment).

Has anyone done a conversion on a ralliart yet? Any idea what all it would entail? I'm guessing just injectors, fuel lines, fuel pump, maybe a regulator, piggyback to retune the A/F ratio, and a bit of shop time to get it running correctly.

 

You've pretty much got it. Fuel lines and pump. Not sure about injectors. Then tuning. Downside, though, you'd either have to get a piggyback with switchable maps (haltech) or always have your laptop with you in case you're not near an E85 station.

 

Since E85 has a lower concentration of energy, we would need more cc of fuel per unit cfm of air (ie: fewer miles/gal, but cheaper gallons). Given that our current injectors kinda suck, I figure it would be a good time to go bigger, since it would need more liquid fuel anyway.

Some new flexfuel cars can run on E85 or standard gas without any modification. Any idea how they work? Just a very compatible fuel system with an advanced ECU that can adjust flow before destroying the engine?

 

E85 is alot more corrosive than standard petrol ("gas" to u) so u need like SS lines and the such, but after that normal fuel(if u cant get to E85) should run fine through those lines

 

Yes, thats the easy part. However, I'm wondering how they (flex cars) manage the air/fuel mixture between fillings. And what if someone fills up with standard petro with some E85 still in the tank (or vice versa). This has to be managed since its inevitable. Anyone know what they do?

 

Flexfuel type cars have ECUs that can figure out which fuel is going through the engine and adjust accordingly. I'm not sure how they detect which fuel it is, though. Probably with knock and something else.

 

do they have seperate fuel tanks? like those with normal petrol and LPG???

 

Nope. They've figured out some way for the ECU to figure out the octane and adjust the engine accordingly. Thus, Flexfuel cars can run on gas, E85, or any mix of the two.

 

I'm not sure how it operates either, but I would guess with a wideband o2 sensor and as you said the knock sensors at least.

it would be easier to reflash for E85, I am not sure you could get away with running a piggyback. the ECU can only go so far from standard values in order to operate correctly, and with a basic piggyback you have limited closed loop control. in order for the car to function correctly on the stock ECU and a piggyback with E85 you would need to tune both open and closed loop with lambda tuning (so the map adjusts for any mix of fuels) and that means you need a wideband on top of the other things listed.

Injectors are likely needed, the Evo guys are all upping injectors to use E85, even some that are already upgraded. there are some very helpful threads in the evo forums, one in particular has a link to some research that one of the top tuner shops did on the various fuel system parts and E-85.

all in all I would say it's a costly upgrade, but with the difference in power and the environmental aspect it may be worth looking into. look to spending around $1000 to convert properly, and make sure the piggyback has lambda tuning capabilities.

 

The environmental aspect of E85 is a weak arguement, though, since E85 isn't much better for the environment (stick with converting a diesel if you want to be environmentally friendly.) I can't see there as being enough power gains to justify the cost, either.

 

environmentally sound compared to fossil fuels. the power gains are there, but it's not a power mod no. it's like using high octane fuel, and tuning for it creates more available power without knock.

I wouldn't convert, as otter said it's going to be difficult to justify the cost and I just don't have the time or notion to bother. That doesn't mean that it's not in line with someone else's thinking, although expensive you will see an increase in power and if you don't like what's happening in the middle east you can help us move away from fossil fuels by converting.

 

True, though I tend to compare it against other "good for the environment" options, at which point, ethanol is about the worst one

 

yep, thats about the state of affairs isn't it? the only fuel that is being widely developed is just as bad for the environment as the fuel we are already using at least (or at least I can't see it happening) there won't be a war started over the asset itself<again

 

I don't think I'll get serious about a conversion for some time... at least not until there are more than 1 gas stations in my metro area Thanks for the advice though. I'm sure the question will come up again and someone can just use the search (lol yea right!).

I hate to derail my own thread, but: Anyone read the MIT study that came out last week about using the heat near the earth's core to superheat water to make steam to run turbines to create energy? I think the estimate is if we tapped 50% of the energy under the US, we could power the US 16,000 times over =) They already started drilling shafts in Switzerland (although they cause minor earthquakes while drilling! lol). Looks like we may see more electric cars soon =)

 

Who knows, we might get a dose of our own medicine and have another country declare war with us to get at our corn supply

I shouldn't be helping to derail this thread. There's tons of power potential in the US. IMO, the most logical/economical is to go after wind power. The US has tons of unused space with high winds, enough to power the country many times over, and the technology is already here.

Anyways, I'd be interested to watch if anyone wants to try converting their Ralliart to ethanol. It'd be a particularly good project for someone with a turbo Ralliart, since turbos seem to react better to the higher octane than NA does.