That's half of the fun of driving a stick.

 

When i first got my RA i had the same prob with gear grindage 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 1st , i solved 1st to 2nd by holding the clutch longer, and if u double clutch 2nd to 1st there is no prob

 

Only high end cars get 1st gear syncros (for the most part). This is because high end cars can usually be found on a race track at some point in their lifetime. A tight hairpin will call for 1st gear on the exit and you will not be able to come to a stop for putting the car into gear. That is why high end cars get the extra syncro.

If you really feel compelled to use first, just remeber that 1st lasts till 30 mph. 15 mph is about 3500 rpms. Rev match by double clutching and it should pop right in. If you get real good, (like my dad) you can drive without the clutch by rev matching perfectly in every gear. I wouldn't recomend it and syncro wear would be abnormal, but he likes to show off. He can do this until he comes to a complete stop of course.

 

I've driven my Eclipse like that before, when the clutch hydraulics blew out. Drove it 60 miles home like that. The couple times I had to stop, I pulled it into neutral while decelerating, shut the car off once stopped, and put it into 1st. When the light changed, I started the car while still in gear to get going again. Then rev-matched every gear.

The couple stop signs I encountered on the way, I rolled through at idle in 2nd.

 

again to clirify things...there is no synchro in first!...i have been driving stick since i was 12...and have driven a lot of cars....and in any of those car i have never had or tried to put it into first without rev matching...im not sure if any cars come syncroed at first...i have never researched it...

for the guy that said it feels like there is a syncrho on first...try downshifting from second to first going ~20mph, and just letting it go....you will jerk back...try doing it from fourth to third going about 40mph and you will notice what syncroed gears feel like

 

The reason a 2-1 shift will jerk you back has more to do with gear ratios than whether or not the gear is synchro'd.

For anyone who says there is no synchro on 1st, try driving a '67 Toyota Landcruiser. It has no synchros on ANY gear. I know what no synchros feels like. Sometimes you get it just perfect, and it falls into the gear you want, but most times it grinds a bit. That's not what's happening with 1st gear on this car.

Until someone scans a page out of the factory service manual, showing me there's no synchro on 1st, you're not going to be able to convince me. Here's why:

 

I state this again, maybe I wasn't clear enough. There is no syncro in 1st gear. The whole point of a syncro is making it so you don't have to double clutch in every gear. I dare you to shift from 2nd to 1st gear without double clutching. If you hear gears grind then I rest my case.

99.5% of all cars on the road have no syncro in 1st gear. 1st gear in the mind of automotive engineers is for when you come to a complete stop.

 

So you're saying a base model, 1.8 liter '92 Eclipse is one of those high-end, ultra rare, 0.5% cars that has a synchro on 1st gear? Damn, I shoulda never sold that car.

I need PROOF, not just your opinion. SHOW me where it says there is no 1st gear synchro.

 

My POS neon even has a syncro'ed first gear, so it's not really a matter of expensive or sporty cars having them, its the philosophy of the manufacturer that dictates that. In the case of chrysler and the neon, I guess they thought they'd make a fun to drive cheap car that falls apart quickly, lol. There are different levels of syncronization as well... first probably only has one, while 2nd most likely has double syncros, which would give a different feel as well.

 

why wouldn u not have to use the clutch if u rev match

 

Maybe he meant brakes? It makes sense if he's just rev-matching and engine braking, but yeah... how in the world do you rev match w/o using the clutch?

 

I'm talking about driving in second gear, going about 20 mph, pushing the clutch in, moving the stick into 1st. If you hear a large grind or feel tons of resistance, then there is no syncro. The Ralliart does that. After you select 1st, the rest is up to you. Two options:

1. Rev match and use first gear
2. Don't rev match and let the clutch out, jerk the car around, and look like a dumb ***

Both of these are independent from syncros. Double clutching allows you to match the gears before they are selected. This saves syncro wear and is overall better for the transmission. Rev matching with the clutch in helps but it still doesn't match the gears. It is engine speed not being matched makes cars jerk. It has nothing to do with the syncros. Syncros help you STOP gear grind and save your gears. Syncros have nothing to do with car jerk.

There are two ways to break power delivery from the engine to the wheels. One is obviously the clutch and the other is the gear box. Pulling the car out of gear and leaving the clutch out lets you adjust the speed of the gear on one side. The other gear is dependent upon the speed of the vehicle. My dad knew how many revs the car did at certain speeds and matched the revs accordingly. Then he'd slide it into that gear with little to no resistance.

 

OK, I'm not a car man by any means of the term. I have no clue what syncros. I didn't know what the term "rev matching" was until I read this post (it's something I've always done but didn't know it had a title). I have been driving a stick for 11 years now.

After reading everyone's posts this is my take. The people talking about this syncros thing seem to be using the wrong examples to explain it. One guy says that if you do 20mph in 2nd, shift to 1st, and let the clutch out you will get a sudden jerk. Well duh! That will happen in any gear when you shift down if you don't rev match. Correct me if I'm wrong but some will have harder jerks, like 2nd to 1st, because of the gear ratios.

That's just my 2 cents. Like I said, I don't know very much about cars and have no clue what syncros are. Everything I've learned about cars, outside of changing the oil and tires, has been from playing Grand Turismo (which by the way is a pretty damn good way to learn hour to drive and tune a car).

 

Well I put in a short shifter kit and expected to get more grinding, but instead it made a very unusual difference. Instead of random grindy notchy shifts Now when I get in the car after it's sat for a while, the first shift is notchy the second a lot less and after that it's nice a smooth. I have no idea what is causing this, maybe oil needs to creep back up into second before it shifts smooth. Anyway the shorty shifter is great, I did that under the hoof bushings and shifter houseing bushings, great up grade. Though if you do it expect to use more strength to shift because there is less leverage on the shorty shifter.

 

Yes, when the car sits a while, the oil settles to the bottom. There is no oil pump in a manual tranny, so all the oil is moved by the gears. It takes a little while for it to get all the way back up to the top. Until the oil makes it to the synchros, they don't work quite right.

In my car, when I leave my house, I run up through the gears, and cruise in 5th to the end of my road (~3 miles). The 1-2 shift is usually notchy, 2-3 a little rough, 3-4 and 4-5 are smooth. By the time I have to stop at the end of my road and start again, it's all pretty smooth. Now that it's getting colder here, I'm noticing that it's taking a bit longer to smooth out than during the summer. I'll probably change my tranny fluid over to Synchromesh this coming weekend. It did wonders for my DSM trannies, even in cold weather.