2009 Aussie RA - Tweaking and Tuning
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
Yeah, that "hunting" wobble above and below is best avoided.
I see that when my BWGDC is set too high, and the wastegate opens anywhere above my boost target. The combination of the downward EC kicking off plus the wastegate cracking open (which it was going to do at that point anyway) leads to a sudden dip after the peak, eg. 2psi. That takes more time to recover, and off she goes hunting.
But get the BWGDC table so the wastegate opens just under the boost target, and the EC system "catches" the boost as part of its initial upward correction work. The EC then has a +5% operating window to work with.
That's my goal in all this, anyway. In the graph I posted earlier, it couldn't quite push up enough to touch my target... but I've just applied the new IAT adjustment stuff, which was pulling the BWGDC curve down a wee bit. In time, I'll get that dialled in...
Rich
I see that when my BWGDC is set too high, and the wastegate opens anywhere above my boost target. The combination of the downward EC kicking off plus the wastegate cracking open (which it was going to do at that point anyway) leads to a sudden dip after the peak, eg. 2psi. That takes more time to recover, and off she goes hunting.
But get the BWGDC table so the wastegate opens just under the boost target, and the EC system "catches" the boost as part of its initial upward correction work. The EC then has a +5% operating window to work with.
That's my goal in all this, anyway. In the graph I posted earlier, it couldn't quite push up enough to touch my target... but I've just applied the new IAT adjustment stuff, which was pulling the BWGDC curve down a wee bit. In time, I'll get that dialled in...
Rich
Yeah, that "hunting" wobble above and below is best avoided.
I see that when my BWGDC is set too high, and the wastegate opens anywhere above my boost target. The combination of the downward EC kicking off plus the wastegate cracking open (which it was going to do at that point anyway) leads to a sudden dip after the peak, eg. 2psi. That takes more time to recover, and off she goes hunting.
But get the BWGDC table so the wastegate opens just under the boost target, and the EC system "catches" the boost as part of its initial upward correction work. The EC then has a +5% operating window to work with.
That's my goal in all this, anyway. In the graph I posted earlier, it couldn't quite push up enough to touch my target... but I've just applied the new IAT adjustment stuff, which was pulling the BWGDC curve down a wee bit. In time, I'll get that dialled in...
Rich
I see that when my BWGDC is set too high, and the wastegate opens anywhere above my boost target. The combination of the downward EC kicking off plus the wastegate cracking open (which it was going to do at that point anyway) leads to a sudden dip after the peak, eg. 2psi. That takes more time to recover, and off she goes hunting.
But get the BWGDC table so the wastegate opens just under the boost target, and the EC system "catches" the boost as part of its initial upward correction work. The EC then has a +5% operating window to work with.
That's my goal in all this, anyway. In the graph I posted earlier, it couldn't quite push up enough to touch my target... but I've just applied the new IAT adjustment stuff, which was pulling the BWGDC curve down a wee bit. In time, I'll get that dialled in...
Rich
My EC is still off but I at least I feel like I am catching whats going on now.
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
Hi folks.
Just for laughs, here's a comparison I did between factory tune and Bryan's "stock pill" tune...
Factory ROM
(with mode23 logging mode enabled)
Boost went over its target, to 19.5psi, prompting a whacking great downward WGDC correction... -10%. It then continued to apply downward correction to redline, eventually ending up at minus 30%. IAT was at just 18C out there tonight.
Load went from 200 to 170 to 190 as the boost EC did its thing... so fuelling bounced all over the place as a result.
The super-rich dip at the end is lean-spool switching off, at around 6600rpm. It went richer than my analogue wideband was configured to support.
GST Stock Pill Tune
Smooth! Nice work, Bryan.
Rich
Just for laughs, here's a comparison I did between factory tune and Bryan's "stock pill" tune...
Factory ROM
(with mode23 logging mode enabled)
Boost went over its target, to 19.5psi, prompting a whacking great downward WGDC correction... -10%. It then continued to apply downward correction to redline, eventually ending up at minus 30%. IAT was at just 18C out there tonight.
Load went from 200 to 170 to 190 as the boost EC did its thing... so fuelling bounced all over the place as a result.
The super-rich dip at the end is lean-spool switching off, at around 6600rpm. It went richer than my analogue wideband was configured to support.
GST Stock Pill Tune
Smooth! Nice work, Bryan.
Rich
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
Been spending a lot of time working through ROM patches for Evo X, plus lots of stuff for Bryan's v27 base maps. Reckoned it was about time I put up some more fun tuning stuff about my own RA. 
I worked on my fuel map for quite a while, aiming for flat 11.0:1 at WOT. Got it spot-on...
With this all done, I'd noticed that there were some curious points in the map where I'd had to go a fraction leaner at higher load points to get what I wanted...
I didn't worry too much - it was just additive/subtractive, after all. But it still looked a little curious.
Note, I stopped using the "AFR" style pseudo-numbers for fuel tables. It was cleaner and easier for me to use a more "raw" system. To avoid headaches moving between them, I made sure that it still used "bigger = leaner" style numbers.
Later on, I discovered the Calibration Fuel Map for my own ROM... and those curious fuelling "steps leaner" made a lot more sense. There was a direct relationship between "steps richer" in the Calibration Fuel Map - the load points lined up nicely with what I'd found through my wideband logs.
When you think about it, that's some pretty awesome accuracy and control we have. We're talking 0.1AFR tuning accuracy from a wideband costing a couple of hundred bucks... and logging/retuning hardware in the same price range. Amazing, really.
I've tidied up both maps a little. The Calibration Fuel Map is now an even 102.3% across the entire high-load area, and the High Octane Fuel Map has been tweaked so it no longer steps leaner to compensate...
Nice and tidy...
Rich
I worked on my fuel map for quite a while, aiming for flat 11.0:1 at WOT. Got it spot-on...
With this all done, I'd noticed that there were some curious points in the map where I'd had to go a fraction leaner at higher load points to get what I wanted...
I didn't worry too much - it was just additive/subtractive, after all. But it still looked a little curious.
Note, I stopped using the "AFR" style pseudo-numbers for fuel tables. It was cleaner and easier for me to use a more "raw" system. To avoid headaches moving between them, I made sure that it still used "bigger = leaner" style numbers.
Later on, I discovered the Calibration Fuel Map for my own ROM... and those curious fuelling "steps leaner" made a lot more sense. There was a direct relationship between "steps richer" in the Calibration Fuel Map - the load points lined up nicely with what I'd found through my wideband logs.
When you think about it, that's some pretty awesome accuracy and control we have. We're talking 0.1AFR tuning accuracy from a wideband costing a couple of hundred bucks... and logging/retuning hardware in the same price range. Amazing, really.
I've tidied up both maps a little. The Calibration Fuel Map is now an even 102.3% across the entire high-load area, and the High Octane Fuel Map has been tweaked so it no longer steps leaner to compensate...
Nice and tidy...
Rich
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
From: Griswold, CT
Been spending a lot of time working through ROM patches for Evo X, plus lots of stuff for Bryan's v27 base maps. Reckoned it was about time I put up some more fun tuning stuff about my own RA.
I worked on my fuel map for quite a while, aiming for flat 11.0:1 at WOT. Got it spot-on...
With this all done, I'd noticed that there were some curious points in the map where I'd had to go a fraction leaner at higher load points to get what I wanted...
I didn't worry too much - it was just additive/subtractive, after all. But it still looked a little curious.
Note, I stopped using the "AFR" style pseudo-numbers for fuel tables. It was cleaner and easier for me to use a more "raw" system. To avoid headaches moving between them, I made sure that it still used "bigger = leaner" style numbers.
Later on, I discovered the Calibration Fuel Map for my own ROM... and those curious fuelling "steps leaner" made a lot more sense. There was a direct relationship between "steps richer" in the Calibration Fuel Map - the load points lined up nicely with what I'd found through my wideband logs.
When you think about it, that's some pretty awesome accuracy and control we have. We're talking 0.1AFR tuning accuracy from a wideband costing a couple of hundred bucks... and logging/retuning hardware in the same price range. Amazing, really.
I've tidied up both maps a little. The Calibration Fuel Map is now an even 102.3% across the entire high-load area, and the High Octane Fuel Map has been tweaked so it no longer steps leaner to compensate...
Nice and tidy...
Rich
I worked on my fuel map for quite a while, aiming for flat 11.0:1 at WOT. Got it spot-on...
With this all done, I'd noticed that there were some curious points in the map where I'd had to go a fraction leaner at higher load points to get what I wanted...
I didn't worry too much - it was just additive/subtractive, after all. But it still looked a little curious.
Note, I stopped using the "AFR" style pseudo-numbers for fuel tables. It was cleaner and easier for me to use a more "raw" system. To avoid headaches moving between them, I made sure that it still used "bigger = leaner" style numbers.
Later on, I discovered the Calibration Fuel Map for my own ROM... and those curious fuelling "steps leaner" made a lot more sense. There was a direct relationship between "steps richer" in the Calibration Fuel Map - the load points lined up nicely with what I'd found through my wideband logs.
When you think about it, that's some pretty awesome accuracy and control we have. We're talking 0.1AFR tuning accuracy from a wideband costing a couple of hundred bucks... and logging/retuning hardware in the same price range. Amazing, really.
I've tidied up both maps a little. The Calibration Fuel Map is now an even 102.3% across the entire high-load area, and the High Octane Fuel Map has been tweaked so it no longer steps leaner to compensate...
Nice and tidy...
Rich
Question is, how do we get this in our 2011 xml. I tried, and it seems to give me something similar to you, however after 320 load and 8000 rpm there are more numbers that make no sense. How do I find the address for load and rpm for this table?
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
I've just found that table for your ROM (56940007) and updated Golden's online database. Simply download your ROM def again from goldenevo.com, and you'll have it.
Edit: Also defined it for 56950006 (2011 EDM), for good measure.
Rich
Edit: Also defined it for 56950006 (2011 EDM), for good measure.
Rich
Last edited by richardjh; Jan 1, 2012 at 05:03 PM.
BE CAREFUL w/ the Calibration Map!!!
I had...less than stellar results with it, needs ALOT of attention to get right. I'm saving that map for actually dyno time, too many side effects in DD
Try this idea on for size:
Set a flat value of 11.5 for the AFR map, then find out what actual is. Use the corresponding difference as a means of changing the 3x'sMAP tables (these should already be 'smoothed' ahead of time). Ultimately the first VE table is the MAP tables. Once you establish 'expected' airflow, all the fuel maps make better sense.
I had...less than stellar results with it, needs ALOT of attention to get right. I'm saving that map for actually dyno time, too many side effects in DD
Try this idea on for size:
Set a flat value of 11.5 for the AFR map, then find out what actual is. Use the corresponding difference as a means of changing the 3x'sMAP tables (these should already be 'smoothed' ahead of time). Ultimately the first VE table is the MAP tables. Once you establish 'expected' airflow, all the fuel maps make better sense.
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
Here's another interesting thing with the Calibration Fuel Map...
The 130-load column is horribly uneven in the mid-rpm area. Here's a cut-down pic showing what I mean...
So from 3500-4500, CFM goes 99.2% -> 102.3% -> 100.0%
If ever there was an argument against smoothing your High Octane Fuel Map, this is it.
Sure, go smooth those timing maps all you want, but learn to love the "lumps and dents" in your fuel maps... they'll most likely be correcting for "dents and lumps" elsewhere.
I've had annoying spool-up knock issues at 4000-4500rpm for ages - getting the mid-map fuelling just right has always been rather challenging. I'm now running with a less zig-zaggy CFM in this mid-rpm spool-up area (and complementary tweaks to the HOFM). I'll see if I get more consistent fuelling results.
Rich
The 130-load column is horribly uneven in the mid-rpm area. Here's a cut-down pic showing what I mean...
So from 3500-4500, CFM goes 99.2% -> 102.3% -> 100.0%
If ever there was an argument against smoothing your High Octane Fuel Map, this is it.
Sure, go smooth those timing maps all you want, but learn to love the "lumps and dents" in your fuel maps... they'll most likely be correcting for "dents and lumps" elsewhere. I've had annoying spool-up knock issues at 4000-4500rpm for ages - getting the mid-map fuelling just right has always been rather challenging. I'm now running with a less zig-zaggy CFM in this mid-rpm spool-up area (and complementary tweaks to the HOFM). I'll see if I get more consistent fuelling results.
Rich
I did a smoothing, 3 different types in fact, and it resulted in really bad partial throttle/idle fuel problems. Hence why I want a steady state dyno to try and figure them out.
But if you find a rhyme or reason please feel free to share
But if you find a rhyme or reason please feel free to share
Last edited by sstevojr; Jan 2, 2012 at 04:39 PM.
Sorry to thread hijack, but what exactly do you mean by this. I am installing a wideband this week and will start to see what all this AFR fuss is about. Do you mean on your high octane map you change all afr to 11.5 past 100 and how does this change your MAP tables if you are = or - your target value? Learning is fun, thanks.
Try this idea on for size:
Set a flat value of 11.5 for the AFR map, then find out what actual is. Use the corresponding difference as a means of changing the 3x'sMAP tables (these should already be 'smoothed' ahead of time). Ultimately the first VE table is the MAP tables. Once you establish 'expected' airflow, all the fuel maps make better sense.
Set a flat value of 11.5 for the AFR map, then find out what actual is. Use the corresponding difference as a means of changing the 3x'sMAP tables (these should already be 'smoothed' ahead of time). Ultimately the first VE table is the MAP tables. Once you establish 'expected' airflow, all the fuel maps make better sense.
In that regard, that could work. I've heard a couple other guys talk about making 100+ a flat 100%. I did that as well, and while under boost it was a whole lot more stable (as opposed to +/-3% fuel). It was sub-100 load that made my head swim and my testes shrivel (from watching my WB, lol).