Jumperalex

Quick question folks ... I see that I am able to change the RPM values in ECUFlash, however do those changes actually xfer over to the ECU?

I ask because I need a little finer control around the spool area to allow fast spool but still be able to catch the boost before it overshoots, and then prevent it from dipping too much.

It just seems an awful waste to have RPM points on that table starting at 500 and going every 250rpm up to 3000. Hell they're all 100% anyway. I want to add a 3250, 3750 and 4250.

Thoughts?

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Yes you can change those to how you see fit.

TouringBubble

iTrader: (2)

That's an awesome idea. I'll have to give it a try myself.

Jumperalex

seriously? you hadn't tried it already? It was the first thing I thought about after my first data run. i thought, "damn these adjust points are useless. Who needs 5 points between 500 and 3000rpm?"

anyway sweet. I already put together a map but I didn't want to flash it yet. Thanks razor.

ok off to test.

TouringBubble

iTrader: (2)

Lol. Yeah, I thought the values were useless, but I have never rescaled any tables myself so I didn't think about it ..

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Here is an example of changing the RPM points:

Jumperalex

ok I did it, it works, and it is IMHO, the easiest way to get good fast spool, control spike AND prevent the post-spike dip that at least I seem to get.

If you don't change at least the two RPM points right near where you really get your spool on, you have no way to hold the WG closed until the last minute and then open it wide immediately. I say that because the ECU is interpolating between each point and the only way to get a nice steep drop from 100% down to [insert what you need to prevent spike]% is to overshoot what is actually required. The problem then is you end up with a dip in boost afterwards since again you are only able to recover the WGDC so fast (read: steep) because the adjust points are so far apart.

At this point I'm about 95% the way there to getting the RPM points set just right for spool to hold BWGDC to 100% until the last moment, then drop it like a rock to prevent spike, and then again immediately pop BWGDC back up to prevent a dip in the load.

Im' also tweaking around with where some of my other RPM points are in the trickier areas where it is obvious I'm running into areas that seem to need more reactive control to maintain a nice level load.

After that I'll start playing with the TBEC because I think it is really going to be needed, on the plus and minus side, to ensure I still get fast spool when I'm not doing a 3rd gear run from 2000 rpm but am instead shifting / exiting a corner. I still want to avoid having to spool at 4500 rpm with a starting BWGDC of <100%. Hopefully I can tweak the TBEC to account for that. We'll see. But so far the car is being very responsive to my BWGDC tweaking.

I only wish I had gotten a smaller pill, vs my #59, because as you can see my settings are pretty high in most places except where I have to catch the turbo to prevent spike.

TouringBubble

iTrader: (2)

I'll be doing this soon. Thanks for letting us know it works

The issue I had is that I could increase the value at 3000 for better spool in 4th but I would overboost in 6th due to earlier spool. So, I had to lower it for safety. A little finer control would help this issue a little I think. I could wait till, say 3250 before dropping the value so low which might result in a slightly earlier spool in 4th.

Think it'll work?

Jumperalex

it certainly sounds like it could work. I'm having a similar issue my self but it is related to TBEC and my desire to keep WGDC at 100% until full boost.

The problem is that tuning BWGDC for 3rd gear run starting at 2500 is one thing. It gets me good fast spool, control of the spike, and a nice level curve until my intentional taper at 6000. The problem is when I actually drive the darn thing, and do something crazy like actually start accelerating from say 3500-4000 rpm I get slow spool because my BWGDC is set based on going WOT much sooner. so the WGDC is <100% during spool up at 3500 and that hurts spool.

So I started playing with the TBEC and BDEL in the hope that I could get the right numbers to get the ECU to increase WGDC until spooled and then drop it back down along the lines of my BWGDC. However it is not nearly responsive enough and I think, there is a bit of a decay function going on. If I am in forth, I get more load than I the BDEL, after a slow spool, which then holds until nearly 5500 rpm at which point it appears as if the ECU is finally decrements the WGDC and you can see the load fall off a cliff to my desired level.

I have a few more things to try playing with the TBEC values, both the error factor and the correction factor, before I decide to throw in the towel and put my ProfecB on. Tuning with the ECU just seems to work really well for "testing" purposes, but when it comes to actual driving it doesn't seem to be reactive/controllable enough to actually give all the spool you need at any time and then provide the continued control needed through the rest of the rpm range. It just all depends too much on where you start going WOT. And forget about after a shift.

The one amazing thing that does seem to be noticable is that with the extra boost I started getting 1.6kg/cm2 (22.8psi) vs my desired 1.45kg/cm2 (20.5psi) I wasn't getting any real knock to speak of ... man did the car want to pull HARD

Here are two logs with no setting changes between them. The first is what I considered the best load curve I could get shooting for about 1.45kg/cm2 which equates to about 220 2-byte MUT load for my car with an intentional taper at high rpm to keep from just pushing hot air. I started at 2500rpm and the run goes to 7500. There are no positive TBEC values in either run.



In this run I started at 3500 and ended at 4500 (so don't be fooled by the scale). The key here is notice how the WGDC is <100% WELL before I am spooling. The reason, because that is what I told it to do and you can see how well it worked in the first chart at controlling boost when the turbo really started to spool around 3500 rpm.



And here is an example of 4th gear as I tried to use TBEC to increase WGDC during spool. Notice my load (so to speak) and how long it takes for the ECU to start pulling back from 100% WGDC. I started a little earlier, 3150rpm and this ends at 5800. It might not seem obvious without maptracing, but the WGDC has been increased in the early section above my set BWGDC and then it is staying much higher until 5600rpm where it finally started to come down to get control of boost again. From the time the WGDC goes to near 100% until it drops again at 5600, the load is about 10 points higher than my BDEL and WGDC is higher than my BWGDC.:



And to top it off, the WGDC is still going below 100% before it needs to during spool-up. I think it doesn't look as bad as the 2nd picture because I started earlier in RPMs.

I think it was mrfred who said the ECU seems ready to increase but less ready to decrease WGDC and my theory is that even though you can't have more than 100% duty cycle, the fact that you can enter such a number means that the value gets incremented above 100% via the TBEC table, and it takes a while for it to decrement it back below 100%. That is the only thing I can think of why it takes so long to reduce it, Though frankly the increase isn't fast enough for me either because I no matter how high I set the TBEC, I can't avoid the early dip in WGDC during spool when starting at 3500-4000rpm.

yeah that is a LOT ... I'm off to go testing again with some tweaked values. But as I'm typing this I'm getting frustrated and tempted to throw the MBC back on until I put on the EBC

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

Could someone show me how to re-scale the rpm points? Is it a simple matter of clicking on the box and filling in new rpm data, or are there other things involved?

I want to do it on the mivec map. I want to add a 7500 rpm row.

Jumperalex

yes it is you can even do all the cool interpolations and stuff too. What is also neat is that all associated rpm tables change at the same time. though that might not be neat if it changes one you don't want, so make sure everything stays the way you want it.

Evo_Jay

iTrader: (17)

Are you using the stock solenoid or a 3 port??? The stock solenoid is slow and not responsive. You'll get better control using a 3 port. If you didnt know, theres a how-to in my sig.

NJ, you can just click and edit the rpm scaling boxes just like you would any other. You can also do this on your fuel and timing maps, too. It can really help timing if your having a problem area.

I too am working on the after shift boost control. This is what happens... on a regular pull, you have, say, load form 250 @ peak tapering to 220 or so. on a full pull the load at 5000-5500 will be something like 230. but when you pull though 2nd gear and shift to third, the load @ 5-5.5K, right when you get back on the gas, will be like 235 or 240, a lil higher then it would be on a 2K-7K pull.

Jumperalex

yedah I've been reading that thread. I'm just a little annoyed from all the work today amounting to naught. At least the 3-port is cheap enough so maybe I'll pick one up this week. But I'm just a tad skeptical since my problem, right now, is not the solenoid but the ECU's adjusting of the WGDC to account for not being at BDEL. It is just very slow to react and I can't seem to make it faster. It is either not increasing fast enough to prevent slow spool (going WOT around 3500-4000rpm) or it is not decreasing fast enough to prevent over-boosting (in high gears).

And what it sounds like is you're fighting some of the same problems I am. If your ECU were reacting quick enough to adjust WGDC using the TBEC, you shouldn't be seeing that over-boost.

The only thing preventing me from just installing the EBC is that I love the extra boost I can run mid-rpm with a taper up high. The pull is just phenomenal and I can't get that with my ProfecB. But at this point I can't REALLY run that extra boost mid-rpm because I can't be sure I won't get crazy boost on shift into 4th. As it is my boost gauge apparently maxes at 1.6kg/cm2 ... that is annoying because apparently my VIII loves 1.6kc2 at 4500 rpm. Damn near pulled the tires loose :O

Evo_Jay

iTrader: (17)

Im not seeing any overboost. What happen is that since I hit more load @ 5.5K after shifting, then I do in a full pull, I hit error correction. My boost curve, in a full pull is 22-23 holding till like 5k, with taper to like 19-20 by 7K. After I shift the boost goes to bout 21, right when I want it, but I hit error correction, so it dips down, then comes back and stabilizes. But I haven't full tuned my boost maps yet. Usually I go to this private road and do a bunch of pulls and "tune". After the GM solenoid install, all I have done is made a couple changes at my house after driving around town. Basically I haven't tuned the boost yet.

Jumperalex

ahh ok ... what does your TBEC table look like? Mine just doesn't seem to be as effective as I would like. I have my BDEL + BCLO set such that it mimics the load I see when doing a 3rd gear roll-on and no TBEC. I would have expected to see corrections (with a non-zero TBEC) during a shift or high gear pull but I've gotten, at best, too late of a response when I was able to get one at all.