They had 5k on them, they hinder the natural stroke of the shock... Improved handling is not possible with a lowering spring.. That is especially true with the stock Bilsteins.



You are sponsored by swift bro..

 

i use hotchkiss springs they give a good stance and ride very nice.

 

Going too low will hinder travel. Thats why Swifts are -1.4...still gives you room for stroke. Teins do not.

 

The Swifts i ordered are the ones i'm talking about.. In case you thought i wasn't talking about the swifts - The articulation of the shock as far as my car was concerned was ruined. The shock would bottom out and bounce (outside front shock) on major freeway sky ramps at high speed.. They ruined my suspension honestly.. I've owned Three evo's and spent thousands on parts over the last 3 years and as far as cheap mods go the swifts were the worst.. Sold them

 

No one read my review on the Espelir a couple threads down? This is hands down one of the BEST setup for a street car IMO. I went from KW Variant 3s and I did not feel a handling loss on the street at all. It was better suited for street driving and still upgraded the car's handling capabilities. If one is concerned about the Swift's not-so-low drop, you need to look here! https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...iews-pics.html

 

I read your review, but didn't want to post anything negative in your thread. Since you ask, your review was focused on appearance, going to some lengths to illustrate the drop and its cosmetic value. Handling was secondary. As the thrust of this forum usually follows the opposite route, you can see how it failed to make an impact.

 

I would like to clear up a few things with some basic information.

1. The strut has no idea where it starts it's stroke from. It does not matter.

2. Lowering springs will improve handling, by dropping the overall CG slightly among other things, the rake that Swift uses actually helps with the understeer issues common among the Evo.

3. Swift springs do not add any extra stress to the strut when in compression or droop, if anything the increase in rate as the spring compresses will aid in not bottoming the strut.

4. There are a few ways to damage a strut.
a. Too low and soft a spring that allows the strut to bottom.
b. Removal of the factory bump rubbers or cutting them that allows the strut to be
compressed past the limits without a higher spring rate to prevent bottoming.
c. Previous damage to the strut. ie potholes, dropping a wheel off the road, or
the installation of poorly designed spring which is both too low and soft.

I have tested three sets of MR Bilstein struts on a shock dyno. Two used sets and one new set. The used sets were low mileage units less than 5000 miles. They showed no signs of wear, actually if I remember correctly both were very close to the new set. I have also dynoed the KYB's used with OEM springs and Swifts for 15000 miles with no signs of leakage or reduction in dampening qualities. The two sets of Bilsteins I sold to members of this forum after testing was complete one with Robispec and the other with Swifts as I rated both. As far as I know both sets are still doing fine as I still see the members who bought them posting on the forum and have not PMed me with any issues.

 

Thanks for the information Jim, based on your experience and testing, what spring rate is needed to prevent the strut from bottoming out with a 1-1.2 inch drop in the front? What is the difference in design from the regular VIII struts to the Bilstein struts? Thanks again.

Josh

 

Indy, would you mind posting a bit more about this? Intuitively, it wold seem like the rake would add to the understeer by shifting more weight forward.

 

That is a loaded question. Under normal street driving would be totaly different than autox or track days. From the springs I looked at Swift's and Robi's and Eibachs all would be ok for your typical around town set up. After talking to Robi and with the guys tracking the Swift's it would be hard to bottom out either of those springs unless it was an extreme case of decel, downhill and turning all at the same time. Put simply at the limit of the tires. There are plenty of weekend warriors running around on spring/strut combos. With that said there are advantage to running coilovers on more advanced set ups but for the average guy, weekend warrior on a budget the Bilstein/lowering spring combo can't be beat.

As for a magic rate it would be near impossible to have something for all applications. Both the springs Swift's and Robi's have a long proven track record for performance and reliability.

To the second part of the question the KYB's have stiffer valving than the MR Bilstein at the nose of the curve with the Bilstein's having higher forces at mid and tail numbers. That is why the KYB's seem to be firmer around town than the MR Bilstein's, but as frequency increases the Bilsteins do a better job controling the springs.

 

You answered part of the question yourself. I was told years ago about the quirks of driving an AWD turbo car at the limit by one of the best. His trick was to add positive rake, late brake hard in a straight line while downshifting to transfer the weight to the front wheels, turn the car and ride the brakes and be full throttle before the apex then release the brakes just before the apex and let the rear of the car rotate due to the weight transfer. An added benefit of riding the brakes and being full throttle was it loaded the engine and kept the turbo spooled up eliminating the lag upon exit of the corner.

This is very difficult to do and I would in no way recomend trying this on the street. It is an extreme example with a race car, but was good enough to win multiple IMSA and SCCA pro championships. Also it was a brake killer and helped develop some of the race compounds and cooling systems used today.

An easy way to put it is you are giving a head start to unloading the rear end upon entering a turn. Not the perfect way to make a car handle, just one that works when you are out of or have no adjustments.

 

+1 with what Indy has explained. The rake transfers the weight to the front and takes it off the rear. Basically, its a pivot point off the front end. In hard AX turns you car really feel the rear swing around.

On the track, with the Swift Stabilizer bars, the car is very easy to apex via braking technique, proper line, or slight power oversteer.

 

Point well taken since that was the goal of my review So in fact, what you said is well in line with what my article seeks to do. If I wanted to go a real handling expert review I guess I would have done it when I had the Robispec KW V3s. I am not qualify to do a complete track review or one from an engineering standpoint so I left that out for the pros Just think of it this way, although a lot of members are out there looking for track setups, there is a huge amount that looks for a nice appearance (let's be real, the stock Evo looks terrible) and I offered a route I chose because I think it fits the average daily / non-track performance while retaining a good budget. I still think that my setup would fair well under spirited driving because if not, I know Robi wouldn't have sell them to people. Moreover, I do believe that that if one were to hit a road course, money would be better spent on a custom Robispec coilover setup.

 

Thanks for all the info guys great reviews. ill let you all know which i decide to go with..

 

THE RAKE IS TERRIBLE ON THE SWIFTS GUY S keep tellin yourself's that they improve handling..