But, have you monitored EGT's along with spraying methanol, and have you used an AEM EGT before? Much faster response than your typical K type EGT. EGT's will be in the range of 650 degrees celcius or so while methanol is being sprayed and your A/F's are in the range of 12.5 even 13.0(if you lean it out that much), due to the fact you are using the methanol to cool the cylinders instead of the fuel. As soon as the methanol has a hiccup, both EGT's and A/F will sky rocket as the methanol is no longer cooling the cylinders as it did before.

Definately like a good tech debate, and I will most likely have the pressure switch hooked up from the alkycontrol kit since it is there on the pump and it isn't hard to do at all. Do you have some settings inside the AEM for cutting boost, addding fuel, and cutting timing as the only ones I have seen are using the alt settings that are used for anti-lag, and I kinda wanted to use those for full throttle shifting and keeping boost up between shifts.

 

Chad, yeah, the testing was done with a multi-probe, open element fast reacting Heraeus EGT system. Its a very good EGT system (probe is like the fast acting RTD AEM EGT), datalogging, solution trigger, etc. Even with that, the EGT changes I observed were very minor compared to the quick AFR change from shutting the Meth off. I actually tested it on a car I had a while ago which already had a blown HG, so I was able to do some "experimenting" since I was going to chnage the HG anyway. The EGT definitely changes MUCH slower compared to the AFR, and I was after the quickest trigger possible, since the sooner you catch it, the better off your motor will be...and by my testing that was AFR. The K-type thermocouples are mostly usless for this, agreed.

I'm definitely interested in hearing your observations with the AEM EGT sensor.

Using the ALT is the quick/dirty way. If you want to keep ALT....there are a couple of ways to do it. You can couple the pressure switch with an AFR latch to raise your boost, and feed that as your hi/lo boost switch and just tune your high boost regions (fuel & timing) assuming the meth will be on. It should never reach high boost w/o the pump spraying AND the nozzle not being clogged so there is no worry of any damage. Or you can use the nitrous maps to take away fuel, add timing on a base fuel map. Caveat with that is you acn only go -50% on the nitrous map, so on a BIG hit of methanol with big inj, it may not be enough adjustment. Couple of ways to do it depending on how you want to approach it.

 

I will definately be giving you a call or something when I get ready to tune this and set it up. Since the alkycontrol pump has the pressure switch on it it is just a matter of wiring it up, can't complain about too much control. Right, now I am still dealing with a dead beat on getting my cylinder head back so I can go about my tuning. If you don't mind, could you send me a .cal file where you have this setup for the AFR switch, sounds very interesting, expecially since you saw very little increase in EGT's or in fact a slower response in comparison to AFR's.

You can send it to chad_charlton@hotmail.com

Thanks

 

Chad, not a problem. I have set this up on other cars, but not an EVO. We will be setting it up on Luis (VTECH8TR's car), so I'll be writing up something detailing how to do this using EVO specific AEM inputs/outputs, extra parts needed, and a sample cal file to set it up so anyone can do it. Also from then on, any EVO that comes to get tuned by me with alky will get this saftey for free. If I can save atleast 1 motor from methanol failure, I think my R&D efforts on the EVO will be worth it and can benefit the community as a whole. Will be happy to send you cal and help you set it up once its fully tested on an EVO app!

 

Racegate, I am located in Sarasota, once I get my AEM I would love it if you could set this up for me, and possibly even tune it. Ill keep in touch.

 

The SMC kit has the pressure switch at the top of the pump as well, I had planned on hooking it up to the AEM also but if you are already doing this please share so I can have some extra piece of mind as well. Thanks!

 

I can help you with that. Are you controlling boost through the AEM? An MBC, EBC? Even if you are not controlling boost through the AEM, you can wire in a saftey by reverse wiring a cheap automotive relay to power your boost controller when the pump pressurizes. I did this on a customer's car that did not use AEM for boost control.

But, that will only give you 50% protection. It won't protect against a clogged nozzle. You need the full blown protection along with the AFR latch for that (still finalizing the I/O settings on an EVO for that). But its worth noting that pump failure is probably a lot more common than a nozzle clogging up. Some saftey is better then no saftey! Let me know the specifics of how your AEM is mapped for alky, your boost control strategy, and I can help you out.

/vijay

 

I use a Blitz EBC. I haven't been too sucessfull with the GM Boost sylinoid on the car I have tryed it on but I don't really plan on giving up my Blitz Unit just becuase of it being able to change on the fly. All I was really worried about at first was the fuel and ign timing control. I really don't see a nozzle getting clogged with the filters I have in place and I also check everything every couple gallons of use to make sure nothing is getting clogged. Pump failure is what my consern is mostly like you stated above.

I don't use Boost comp in my maps either becuase I like to get the most resolution as possible during spoolup and a good complete/consistant tune and I have had the best luck with this while on the 91oct + alky also. I don't get to crazy with street tunes becuase things do happen but basically right now I spool up at low boost 12.5 then to 12.0 once above 12.5 psi and fall down to mid 11.s on top. Running a GT3076 turbo.

I had considered doing this safety feature as well just haven't had the time to start to figure it out, I also plan on moving the spray light to be activated in the dash as well. Any help would be appreciated once you guys get it figured out so thanks in advance.

 

No prob I can assist you with protecting against pump failure, as I have tried and tested that on an EVO already. How does the pressure switch in the SMC pump work? If you can find that out from SMC, I can tell you how to wire it up and configure the calibration in the AEM.

I haven't dealt with an SMC kit before, only Shurflo based ones, so I want to be 100% sure of how the SMC's pressure switch operates before giving you instructions. Looking at their website, their pump looks different than the Shurflo. So if you can find that out, let me know and we can go from there.

/vijay

[ EDIT: I emailed Steve @ SMC myself. I'll see what he says and post a reply based on his description of how the SMC pressure switch works. ]

 

GTVEVO- I got a reply from Steve @ SMC. The pressure switch on his pump works just like the Shurflo-- completes a circuit to ground when there is no pressure, and is OPEN when the pump pressurizes.

So...assuming your car is tuned fine to run w/o methanol at your WG spring pressure, and you are turning your alky on a bit before your WG spring pressure you can do like this-- buy a SPDT automotive relay (std relay that you use to run foglights,etc...make sure it has pins 87 and 87a, and not two 87 pins though!), and wire it to your boost controller as follows:

Pin 85 - 12+
Pin 30 - ground wire of your *BOOST CONTROLLER*
Pin 87A - GND
Pin 87 - NC (no connect)
Pin 86 - Pressure switch on pump

The pressure switch works backwards, and thats why you have to invert the logic on the relay. That should basically turn on your boost controller ONLY when the pump is up to pressure. That way, if the pump fails, your boost controller will stay off giving you low boost only (WG spring). Make sure your low boost region is tuned for no methanol, and this should work w/o issues.

Hope this helps.

/vijay

 

Sure thing thanks. I will post results once I get a chance to test things out.

 

Whats the best way to run the SMC kit to AEMEMS controlling boost through GM solenoid? I'll be tuning it with alky coming on around 17 and maxing at 20. I'd like the EMS to shift maps to a safe boost level below 17 to avoid the threshold. Could I use the stock SMC pressure (open-on) switch in some way? I'd also like a manual switch in the cockpit to switch to the safe no-spray map if I get nervous for ANY reason. (Lean WB, high EGT, funny sound, valet parking... random fear etc.)

 

Flynavy-- best way is to wire the pressure switch into an AEM SW input, and use that as the hi/lo boost switch AND have it activate a secondary table (ALT,NOS,etc) to pull out fuel for the alky. That way your main fuel map is tuned for just gas. If the alky does not come on, the AEM doesn't remove any fuel, and doesn't raise your boost to high boost...this will 100% protect against a pump failure.

Gives you 2 protections...doesn't raise the boost unless the alky is spraying...and doesn't remove fuel unless the alky is spraying. Works great. Just put a master switch on the main power line, and you have a master on/off with the saftey. Switch off = low boost , gas....switch on = AEM automatically raises boost when alky turns on, removes fuel, etc.....and its all seamless. Works great, I setup all the cars with this that I tune with alky. Setup properly in the AEM its all automatic, and you can use the master switch to just run w/o alky and AEM will have proper mapping. The SMC pressure switch sort of works backwards so you need to invert the logic in the AEM, but thats it.

Hope this helps.

 

Works like a Mofugger!

420 at the wheels cant be wrong. And I got a nice lo boost / hi boost /w alky switch now

It's as easy as picking up the phone and calling the man, heh

 

...