Lets say that I am approaching a 90 degree turn. I take the left turn at a high rate of speed--such that my evo begins to slide sidways into the turn. What I've been doing: wait until the car begins sliding before I apply the gas. Will I stop from sliding more quickly if I apply gas earlier (i.e., during the slide) and just point my front tires in the direction I want to go? In order words, does gasing an all-wheel-drive during a slide result in more or less sliding than if I let off the gas?

Thanks!

-Chris

 

????

 

gas while sliding= more slide

 

What you are describing here is simply understeering. To recover from understeer, don't press the brakes or gas and let the tires' traction come back. And yes, point your steering wheel the "direction you want to go", but becareful to not oversteer here, or you will whip your car around when the traction kicks back in. That's pretty much it in a nutshell in terms of recovering an understeer...

If you WANT to 4-wheel slide, or drift, your Evo, for one thing you have to approach the turn at a certain angle. You can't gun straight into a turn and slide, or you're just asking to crash. To answer your question, it really depends on the angle of your car and speed, but adding a little gas general will help control the car a bit better, especially with an AWD car.

Give me something specific, and maybe I can give you more specific answer. Hope what I gave you helped a little tho'.

 

Thanks.

Well, lets say, hypothetically, that I'm traveling down a narrow one-lane road and I'm approaching an intersection, where I will intersect a wide 4-lane road and make a left hand turn onto the wide road (at a 90 degree angle.) (In other words, I cannot really "apex" the turn because the road I'm on is too narrow. But, the road I'm about to intersect is very wide.) AND, ASSUME THAT I AM BEING TIMED AND WANT TO MAKE MY WAY ONTO THE WIDER ROAD AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
And, supose I'm entering the turn at 30 MPH as I approach the intersection. (the light is green and this is a closed track.) I am not touching the brake at all. (Also, lets suppose that I'm driving on all-weather tires; the yokos are retired.) Half way through the turn, I begin sliding in the direction of my right front tire (which is understeer, correct?) At this point, I begin to use steering to re-gain control. And, I'm not touching the brake at all. But--and this is my question for you all: do I use the gas (assuming that I want to complete the turn as soon as possible)? If, I hit the gas mid-slide, will it just result in more sliding (and thus eat up more time.) Or, do I wait until I stop sliding BEFORE I hit the gas? Which method will result in completing the turn in less time? And, if the answer to that question is the "gas-it-mid-turn" option, then is that a safe method? And, how much gas do I want to give it?

Thanks!

 

OK. So you're pushing through the turn. What's happened is that your tires have exceeded their static friction and are now sliding. Once that happens, the amount of traction your tires produce is a fraction of what they do when they're not sliding. SO more gas will not help you. The right way to do this turn is trail-brake, which is brake and downshift as you're entering the turn. This shifts weight to your forward axle, which increases the traction at that end. Clip the apex then give it gas as you unwind. I think this is the fastest way through this corner for someone who isn't a race car driver. This way is faster than not touching the brake at all.

 

I think I understand what you're saying. At what point do I stop braking/downshifting? (Do I continue to brake during the first half of the turn?)And, at that point (after I brake), then I do nothing until I reach the point when I must begin to unwind the wheel, at which point I gas it?


Thanks.

 

Ok, let's see what I can give you...

In a case such as this, you have to rely more on the power of your car than anything else for one main reason: you have an AWD car. Unlike a RWD car, you can't as easily "neutrally" slide around a bend by relying mostly on weight transfer and steering, and very very hard especially at 30MPH. Instead of just waiting for your AWD car to gain back traction (which will slow you down considerably btw), use your car's suspension and power to tackle your corner. Here is what I would do in your specific situation...

Feint
Regardless of how narrow the road is before the turn, you still want to feint your car (in this case, feint right, then steer left). This will cause the weight of your car to transfer to the inside track of your tires, getting you ready for the turn up ahead by assisting in weight transferring your car correctly for the line-up to the apex when you turn. You can do this without moving your car much; simply but carefully jerk the steering wheel right and left. BTW, if you don't feint, you'd probably understeer too much as you enter the turn.

Heel-Toe Downshifting
Also, you must initiate what is called a heel-toe downshifting around right after the feint, and this takes lots and lots of time to get it right. If you don't know, this technique involves braking and clutching at the same time, and while your right foot is still on the brakes, use the ball or heel of your right foot and tap the gas a little while downshifting, and then stepping on the gas pedal once you've downshifted, all in less than a second.

The braking, following nsnguyen, initiates the weight transfer to the front wheels, your steering wheels. The tap on the gas with the ball or heel of your right foot keeps the engine's RPM at the optimal range while you're still in neutral, since as you well know, braking will drop your RPM. Then by accelling again at the apex of the turn, it will use the traction you already have on your front tires by your braking earlier and your engine's optimal RPM range by your tap on the gas pedal; this will allow you to exit the corner at high speed. Sound complicated doesn't it? It should.

Nutshell Recap
1. Feint
2. Brake...
3. ... immediately followed by heel-toe downshifting
4. Steer accordingly and gas at apex of turn

BTW, the feinting, heel-toe downshifting, and the exiting is all done in a few seconds, so practice practice practice is paramount. I know explaining it to you may be like reading a text book, but that's really it in simpler form. It does get much more complicated, and does involve alot of factors.

Also remember this: entry speed isn't as important as exit speed. You can charge into a corner at 80MPH, but it doesn't do you any good if you have to brake so hard just to turn and you end up getting out of the corner at 20MPH. It's much better to say enter a corner at 60MPH and charge out of the corner at 40MPH.

There are a little more technical things I didn't include here, so if you have any more questions, please let me know. What you've asked here is but a very small tip of the iceberg in the world of race techniques. Good luck to you .

Note: what is said here is soley based on the the details given and my perception of the scenario. What actually happens on the road may differ, so practice and drive at your own discretion.

 

Exactly, however if the car is understeering, giving the car gas will induce even more understeer. The feint right then turn left technique (or vice versa) will help a lot to keep the understeer to a minimum, but will cause oversteer. I used to drive a '98 BMW M Roadster with no traction control so i'd take oversteer anyday!

 

I was going to skip the rally style scandanavian flick since it's really not a beginner's technique Start with trail braking then try the flick in an autocross or open lot (preferably one you own).

 

i think the easier way to do for a beginner (i am one too), it's power sliding (drifting on 4wd is power sliding after all), but it does require some more power on the car, if not, it's so much easier when it's wet on the road,

the feint, braking, and gear lock, will require much higher speed, it's not very safe to practice on the street,

once you master the power sliding and get use to the weight transition, (different car is different), then use try E-braking, then gear lock, then brake and feint.

like i said, i am a beginner too, for a quickest time, ususally on the open road corner turn,
i will go through these steps to test out,

1),normal turn-- i would try to test what is the highest speed that the car can turn safely first,
2), e-brake---then i will try use E-brake technique to see if i can get a little fast than normal fast turn,
3), once i know the mph i need to turn, let's say 50mph, then i will brake it to 40mph before enter the corner, turn, and creat a little oversteel by throttle it, then counter-steering, this will achieve nice exit corner at 60mph,

step 4) and 5), you can try braking, gear lock, and feint, but i am not suggest to do it, since the braking and feint require so much over speed, and gear lock is not good to your tranny,


again, practice, pracice, try it all at autox or road courses, take it as your own risk though.

 

i bet the reason why you opened this topic is because it has happened to you. same with me, i understeered, and didnt point the steering wheel right, and been whiping the car back and forth like 3 times. it was scary, and i wouldnt do something like that again.

get a rear strut bar. it should help alot.

 

Yes--learning all this is a bit overwhelming. I'm just reading what you guys wrote over and over again. Tomorrow, I will slowly begin to practice (in a conservative fashion).


Please explain how the e-break thing works and what is the effect?

Thanks for all the help!

 

Using the e-brake initiates a loss of traction in your rear wheels, therefore causing a direct oversteer. This is usually used in low speed turns, especially with FWD or AWD vehicles.

The techniques I have described for you are, yes, somewhat tough to grasp at first, but at least you now have a good idea as to what you should do at the end once you get a little better with that turn you're talking about.

Here, try this...

Instead of sliding your way around the corner, do your best and follow the most direct line of the turn using the apex, i.e. outside, apex, outside. Use only grip techniques for now.

This is THE fundamental technique you need to understand and get good at before you start trying 4-wheel drifts. Effective drift techniques evolve from grip driving, since they both use the same fundamental lines of approach (Don't get confused with the drift stuff you see at drift show-offs. Those are JUST for show. Drift techniques for racing are totally different). As you practice more and more and you go faster and faster into your corner, you'll notice your car will start sliding ever so slightly. It's around that point when you'll start to grasp the effectiveness of 4-wheel drifts.

Trust me when I say you can't learn all these techniques over night, or even a few months for that matter. It takes time. Start off slow, take your time, and practice practice practice.

Update Add-on: About a year back, a friend of mine asked for similiar advice on tackling corners, and I made a few amateur videos for him so he can study them whenever he wants. I may still have them lying around, so if you're interesting, I wouldn't mind posting them somewhere for you to download. Anything else, ask me anytime. You can also PM me. Good luck!

 

hey EvoCorp, i wanna give you a thumbs up for all these info in this thread. ive been reading them and theyre VERY informative... https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ne...ply&p=1876375#