Hello,

I'm trying to find a good racing school that can teach proper driving techniques on the track. I thought about skip barber but I wasn't sure if practicing on a formula car would help me in a street car, as far as proper line, turn ins, etc.

I've been to a few HPDE's, but every instructor I get provides contradictory advise from one and another, which gets pretty frustrating. Is there a school out there that will provide consistent advice so I can have a solid basis to follow and practice with? I would like to get a solid base down before I start my SCCA licensing program. Also I will be moving to Newport Beach, CA in about a month so I guess anything that is on the side of the coast would be great.

 

Bondurant. Either a 3 day course which is all in street cars, or a 4 day Grand Prix course with street cars and formula cars. FYI the 4 day course will satisfy all your scca requirements and you will have your SCCA regional license.

 

Do any of the companies use AWD cars? I'm planning on the Panoz course, but I know that's not on AWD, but since all the cars I've had are AWD, I'd much rather have the course on an AWD car.

 

Vishnu is going to do some EVO spacific schools this fall so you may want to consider that. Your comments about how inconsistant driving instructors are struck a cord with me. You are so right most of them are seemingly trying to impress you or trying to thrash your car rather than trach you anything worthwhile. I have done some training for PCNA and did an informal poll of techniques taught and as you said they were amazingly different and in most cases wrong. Most of them mean well they are just not ready to teach yet. Panoz and Bondo do a good job (way better than any club school). Vishnu will be better still

 

Or there is a Siegel Racing Driver Instruction Clinic at Talladega Gran Prix (1 hour from Atlanta). We have done LOTS of work with AWD. The last school was 2 Evo's, an STi, a Porsche Cayenne Turbo, and a Porsche 911 Turbo. I can guarantee that all instruction will be consistent

 

Is it possible to enter a different car besides an Evo at the Vishnu events. I know that you mentioned Evo specific, but are there exceptions? Are you an instructor as well? If the vishnu schools are going to be better then the other schools mentioned then I would love to sign up!

 

The only problem is I would have to trailer my car to the event since I will be in CA. Do you guys have regional events in CA?

 

That comment about instructors also struck a cord with me. For various reasons I've "retired" from competative motorsports, but my need for speed got me involved in a DE program last year. Consistancy of instruction and car control instruction are the two things I constantly worry about. In our program I think we do a good job of teaching the very basic stuff.

Chrono, I am somewhat offended by your comment about instructors impressing students and trashing cars. Yes, I am sure there are some bad eggs in the instructor corps of club DE programs, but most are reasonably skilled drivers who can put their egos aside long enough to try to help out a newcomer. Your opinion is higly valued on this board, and making blanket comments about club DEs is irresponsible. For a lot of people a club DE is the only way for them to get on track. We should encourage people to get involved in any way they can, not give them one more reason to stay home.

 

Scott knows his stuff

 

I agree there are some good ones but how is the novice able to tell? I have gone to many, many of these days as a coach for someone (or a small group). When out on the track interacting with these guys you see the crazy and various lines/techniques taught. This quickly confuses and irritates people as the original post here showed. One instructor saying one thing and another (in the next session) completely (unknowingly) contradicting the first instructor.

The problem is while the students are rated as they progress the instructors are not! They are all good people, it's just that the standards are so lax for being an instructor and the actual training they get is so basic (if at all), many should simply not be out teaching. I've suggested a rating system based on a benchmark instructor (someone beyond club level) as a yardstick and an intensive "ride with each other" program to get the vocabulary and process synchronized between the guys but it always comes down to track time and money.

Is it better than nothing?...yes (almost always). Is it good consistent instruction?... absolutely not.

That is why I have never promoted these programs unless I can promise a specific known guy and have them stick with them. I usually tell people to go to a professional school (SBRS, Bondo, JR etc.). The best option is to find a local known professional racer and ask them if the do personal coaching (yes it's more expensive but for guys that drop thousands for mods on their EVO it is cheap considering the quality you get). In one day you will be a safer faster driver than a full year of DE (unless you hit the good instructor lottery each time). Sorry but it's true.

DE needs to invest in the drivers and most important put their best drivers (not necessarily their most experienced) in charge and weed out the bad ones (even if the are nice and safe and everybody likes them). ONE bad instructor ruins the credibility of all the instructors. The other problem is that they are only going to be as good as the lead guy and if he is lead because he has been there the longest (not because he is the best) then the whole thing suffers.

I absolutely do want as many people on the track...but most important is that they are taught well and are safe. They have lots of skidpad training before they hit the track the theory is well taught (and sound) and the in car instruction is absolutely consistent and at a level that can train the full range of students

This is not aimed at individuals, it's the system and standards that are the problem. Maybe these steps have all been taken since I stopped going a few years ago. What do you think?

 

Since you're moving you might want to check. Although I'm not sure if this is what you're lookin for.

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/view...672d9f76c58c38

Here's another link to an actual school.

http://autocross.com/cgibin/viewcal.cgi?Active

Next Track event:
http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/view...672d9f76c58c38

 

Defently look into this. Scott is a great guy and from what I've seen and heard a knowledgeable driver and instructor!

 

I think this is primarily why I am so frustrated. I never get the feeling of accomplishment. With one instructor they usually say that you are improving and that you should be moved to a more advanced run group the next time. Then when you come back the new instructor tells you that your technique is wrong and that there's no chance of proceeding to the next level. Now I’m not saying that I’m mad at the fact I wasn’t pushed to the advanced level or that any of my instructors are bad teachers. . I just want to be able to have the self satisfaction that what you are learning at the track is something will help you progress further down the road.

 

Hopefully a student is paired with an instructor for the entire weekend.

I have basicly no experience with DE programs other than the Porsche Club of America. They now have a nationally standardized instructor training program. All instructor candidates are required to attend a 2 day classroom and on track school. The class room portion covers instructional techniques, a standarized interview process to assess the student, and a progression of what to teach and how to assess the student. Also a LOT of time is spent doing in car roll playing with an experienced instructor acting as the student. Is that what you were looking for in a DE program?

 

In a program like this just do what ever you have to do to get to the solo group, learn what you can, and try to grab an advanced instructor once in a while.

When your instructor tell you that you should go to the next run group make sure he fills out the paperwork or tells the right person. This situation can get very frustrating.