You know guys - its hard for me to force myself into thinking along these lines. I do need to ocassionally do this, connect with the mind set of the typical end user to see what they want - however as my evo addiction has gotten worse and worse I have become more and more disconnected.

Driving 90% of the time easy - well god bless you if you have the self control. Personally I think I drive 90% of the time hard.

BTW on closed loop operation - or easy - we retain the factory settings

On full throttle the factory is overly rich - which in my estimation would lead to increased cylinder wash down and actually shorten engine life

I cant make an honest answer on the effect of the flash on long term engine life - but I think on a otherwise bone stock evo the effect of the few extra whp (about 20) would be nominal.

I have customers with 50,000 plus miles so far and no issues reported to date.

Time will tell I guess in another 2 - 3 years

 

I get what your saying AL... I dont think the life the engine will change with a flash @ all. its all about the user and how he drives PLUS how well he maintances it.

 

I definitely do not think the EVO is tuned moderately by Mitsu because of the engine. If ANYTHING it would be to keep the drivetrain together for the longest period of time possible.

People have been running high boost on 4G63s for many years. The engine is in no way weak, thats for sure! If EVOs had 320HP stock, the clutch would need (or should be) stronger, there would be more wear on the trans, etc. I would NOT worry about the longevity of your EVO engine. It can handle 28psi, 22psi aint sheeet!

 

As long as there is an absence of knock and the engine runs properly and smoothly, then its durability will be placed solely on assembly and strength. If this is the case, I wouldn't worry one bit. The motor is already strong as hell and mine doesn't even burn a drop of oil. Preventative maintenance is also key. Staying on top of oil changes and keeping an eye on all your fluids and possible problems that may arise. Do all of this and I wouldn't bat an eye at it running to 100,000 + miles

 

Car manufacturers have specific performance numbers and specifications to
reach when marketing the car. Once they reach those numbers their job is done.
Everyone is correct about the warranty issues also.

 

EXACTLY!!

 

I would wager that another reason the car doesn't come "maximized" from the factory is to account for the "stupid owner factor". I'm referring to the person who decides or accidentally runs 87 octane fuel. The factory map will support this action; however, if the car were set up leaner on the top end most likely this person would hole a piston in short order from detonation.
YMMV,
Greg

 

This is very accurate information

As vividly demonstrated recently when one of my customers who was making 340 whp on his reflashed ecu found out when he was acccidenatlly filled up with 87 octane my mistake.

When you are running a reflashed ecu - be it on 91 octane or 93 octane - it is very important NOT to put in 87 octane fuel

People who want to be able to run on 97 octane fuel need the stock tune

One more thing to consider - in 99% of cases asdding ANY modifications what so ever to the car - such as a intake or an exhuast will throw off the stock tune and in many cases leave the car in a unsafe state of tune on the stock program. It is in these cases where a reflash is essential to adjust the tune to match the new performance modifications.

I beleive the only situation where you can even debate this subject is on a bone stock evo.

I believe proper wear in, frequent oil changes, letting the car warm up before getting on it and regular maintenance all play a much greater role in engine lifespan than the minor tuning adjustments which we make.

 

Regarding "absence of knock and the engine running properly," would a reflash (via mail) increase the chance of knock, etc?

 

I didn't understand this before. So, Al, you're saying that if someone KNOWS that ONLY 93oct. will be used, then obtaining a reflash may actually INCREASE engine life (assuming that the driver utilizes the same driving style before and after the reflash)? But, perhaps the reflash may result in decreased drivetrain life?

Ok, based on this information, is it safe to say: If Mitsu could have, hypothetically, been certain that nothing other than 93oct. would ever be used by owners, then perhaps mitsu would have tuned the evo more aggresively (i.e., similar to a reflash)?

I guess there was also the point made that a more aggressive tune would result in greater drivetrain wear, and thus more warranty work. However, a 20 HP increase would likely not, in itself, result in a noticable increase in warranty work, or would it?

In summary: I plan to keep my evo stock, the only exception might be a through-the-mail reflash. I know for a fact that I would never make any more mods because my low (student) budget will keep me honest for the next 5 years. (Furthermore, I have owned my evo now for 6 months, and I still drive it like a grandma 90% of the time and like a lunatic 10% of the time; yet feel no urge to mod it.) Therefore, my only decision to make is whether or not to get a stock reflash. And, the answer to that depends on how certain I can be that a reflash would not, in itself (i.e., without a corresponding change in driving style), decrease the chance that my motor AND DRIVETRAIN will last at least 150,000 miles. Thoughts?

 

Also, while the "just-in-case-they-don't-use-93oct" point seems to support the theory that mitsu intentionally tunes the a/f on the "rich" side, what about the 5,000 boost-dropoff? Is the boost dropoff designed to decrease the risk of using lower oct. gas, or do you think the dropoff has some other purpose? If so, what is that purpose? (e.g, to mimimize drivetrain wear, perhaps? or something else?)

 

That depends on the state of tune that Al uses for his base maps that he sends out and the car itself, Al will probably answer that with a more direct answer. There are a lot of cars that are knock prone bone stock. Whether its from rough castings of the heads, overly sensitive knock sensors, or whatever.....there are some cars that are actually tuned to a safter margin after a custom tune by Al to keep the car from knocking. The great thing about the dynoflash is that all the ECU saftey parameters are retained. Meaning if you start knocking, the ECU is going to yank some timing out of it to keep the motor happy. Sad thing is, I think my car is one of these knock prone cars. She def. isn't a very strong EVO and I am thinking when I get my custom tune on May 7, we are going to find that she won't like additional timing that much.

 

Interestingly - and to most people's total suprize - actually 90% of stock evos in cali 91 octane use knock and pull timing stock in the middle of the power band

The stock evo tuning is lean in the mid range and rich up top

After my reflash tune there is generally zero knock activity what so ever

 

And, for the reason you stated, that's why--if I decide to get a reflash--I feel the urge to get a custom tune. However, I would rather not pay twice as much money as the mail in and drive really far to Al's next destination.

That being said, if I was to get the mail in tune, and if my evo--much like yours--happened to be "knock prone," and lets say that the reflash caused mine to knock, would I be able to notice the knock myself? Would I feel the vibration and/or hear the knocking noise? If I put the reflashed ecu in my car and noticed that the idle was smoother (which is reported in posts by other members who installed a mail in flash), could I definitevely conclude that the engine is not knocking? In other words, if I put in the reflashed ecu and the engine sounds smoother does that necessarily mean that the reflash is causing no problems?

 

The only evidence of the life span of tuned evos over time could possibly be gleamed from over seas on the Ralli Art tuned ecus and TME edition evos of the past which all had aftermarket style ecu tuning from the factory.

Much of my tuning methods on stock ecus are very similar to the Ralli Art ecu mapping in methodology

From what I can gather from international forums the higher performance evo versions do not suffer any more significant wear of shorter lifespan than other versions

Of course items like your clutch will no doubt wear out sooner when you run a flashed ecu as it makes more power - but a lot of that goes back to driving style

ALL I can tell you with 100% certainly is that I have 1600 customers out there which is a fairly significant proportion of the evo market and I have seen no reports of ring wear or bearing wear on my customer's cars. Again, I have several customers with very high mileage.