This is typical - first you challenge my statement which was based upon a whole year working every day tuning evos - - then after i conduct a test to show you that what I was saying is true - you accuse me of "making changes"

I am glad a guy like you is ASSociated with Vishnu

Just for the record - we did not remove the ecu between runs

We did not adjust or change anything other than replacing the pump

The customer was a witness to all of this and watched the whole proceedure

Thanks to the customer for allowing us to use his car fior this testing

The runs were all conducted by Pruven Performance personel

I know you Vishnu guys will not be convinced of anything no matter what I post or no matter how much evidence is presented - much for the same reason that Vishnu testing is done on a dyno that reads different numbers than any other dyno in north america. Much for the same reason that a guy like you boasts a dyno number in his signature line with a tuned product which is the same as most stock evos dyno at.

The main point here is that people following along who are Dyno Flash customers can realize that I recomend a re-tune if they add the Walbro pump to my tune - AS MY TUNES (not speaking for any other tuners here) ALWAYS TAX the stock furl pump to its limit

 

Maybe you don't catch my drift - BUT I will try and make it more clear and break it down more for you

The question was originally directed if a Dyno Flash CUSTOMER needs a REFLASH if he adds the fuel pump

Here is the original question

"I had my car dynoflashed, but not for a walbro fuel pump. Any info. would be appreciated. Thanks"

Its IRRELEVANT what happens with a stock evo - (BUT take my word on this - the Walbro pump makes stock evos run richer also)

When you have the DYNO FLASH - you ARE making a LOT of power by definition

We are not ***** footing about with moon dynos and punk *** dyno results when we are tuning the Dyno Flash

If any of my customers was making 240 whp after my tune I would refund them their money and appologize to them for wating their time. You claim your car is making 240 plus whp after a retune - this does not make any sense to me - AND I can NOT relate to your experinece as our tunes make a lot more power and draw more fuel.

When you have a Dyno Flash you make mega trq down low and the pull lasts a long time with a much longer pull and effective power band than stock

When you have a Dyno Flash - we run super rich and conseravtive a/f targets which give you a huge margin of saftey - BUT which make huge demands on the fueling system which other tuners who select leaner a/f targets do not make

When you have a Dyno Flash - your stock pump is under attack - AND you will run richer when you add a Walbro pump

A RE-TUNE to Fireball 3 Dyno Flash will make your air fuel target return to the desired level and restore the 10 whp you lost from going rich

I do not care - and I am not responsible for those folks who run other tuners flashes and or who run bone stock evos

IF you do not believe what I am saying - please go out and conduct your own testing and attempt to disprove what I am saying here

Dyno time is expensive and we spent one hour on the dyno today TO ATTEMPT to enlighten you - apprantly you just don't "get it"

 

As the original question was directed at a Dyno Flashed evo going to a Walbro pump - I think we answered the question perfectly

Since you are curious what stock whp evo can do - why not help us all out?

Your car looks like a great candidate

I think what you should do is take your car back to Vishnu - strap it to the dyno - test the a/f ratio

Then remove the Walbro pump, install the stock pump and do another pull on the dyno

Then print out and report to us all what you discover

 

That is very relevant; in fact it is WAY more relevant than a test of a car that is in need of a higher flow pump to run the correct AFR's to begin with.

I don't know why you thought testing a car that needed a new pump to run the correct AFR to begin with was going to prove anything.

BeLIEve what you want Al, and anyone that is stupid enough to not question your ignorance deserves your DynoFlash.

 

My car is as far from stock as this one was, it also needs the higher flow pump to operate properly. So that would be as useless a test as this one that you tried to perpetrate as evidence.

 

I'm really not tryng to start a flame war here, but I think the bottom line is that what you said below is incorrect. You did not specify a stock car, or a modded car, and I just re-read this whole post (to be sure) and nowhere does anyone mention stock vs. modded until your last post. Other than the very first poster, as Al stated, asking if his Dynoflash car should be retuned. Which is a question I've actually heard a lot.

The pump alone did cause issues. Period.

You wanted accurate information to be posted and Al did that; along with proof in the form of a Dyno sheet. I'm willing to wager that this test can be reproduced with all different levels of mods, including stock.

Thanks for all the research Al. It IS greatly appreciated by some of us!!

 

Different dynos read differently, fact. Don't be retarded. A person in your position should know all about dynos, and understand that. And a person in your postion shouldn't try to use that information to make yourself look better than you are.

I'm done posting here, so go ahead and post all the accusations and cover up misinformation that you want.

The internet is supposed to be an information tool, not a misinformation tool. This is truly sad.

 

This car i tested today had the usual basic mods - intake and 3" exhaust with a boost controller

HOW much more basic can we get than that ?

Are you saying its "needed" that every car with an intake and an exhuast get a fuel pump ? If so I guess you agree with my recomendation that all Dyno Flash customers consider a Walbro 255 lph fuel pump

Please remember - the original question in this tread was IF he needed a reflash after his Dyno Flash if he added a fuel pump - and the answer is apparently a resounding YES

I think that anyone who reads this thread will realize that YOU are the ignorant one who refuses to see the proof in black and white before his very eyes. Much like people who use a dyno that reads in strange numbers that no one else uses and extrapolate numbers out of thin air - e.g. "300 whp on the moon dyno is EQUIVALENT TO X amount of whp on a real dyno"

The Dyno Jet we use is the mostly widely used tuning tool in north america and is used my all the leading 4G63 tuning houses such as Buschur Racing, AEM, K & N, AMS, Pruven, etc etc etc When you compare the results from one dyno to the next they are very uniform and can be compared to draw comparsions.

Sadly - when people go out and buy these other low reading "moon dynos" (like the ones you are saying I should know about) they are left to making mental calaculations to constanly try and apply the low disorted figures they are gathering to the REAL dyno jet numbers we all use and understand.

WHY use a 10 " ruller to measure in feet ? Doesnt it make more sense to measure feet 12" at a time??

How much credability is a mental "estimate" really going to carry compared to a actual dyno reading in black and white?

Its no accident IMHO that these same people are now questioning the laws of physics and the application of them to the flow of liquids. The assertions I have been making about fuel pressure and a/f's are not OPINIONS - they are facts which are supported by natural LAWS

Have you ever attempted to defy the effect of gravity? I doubt you will have much success and you will not have much sucess attempting to prove that installing a more powerful fuel pump into a car with a fixed orfice rising rate 1/1 regulator will not tend to make the car run richer. More fuel flow = more pressure = more fuel injected per injector on time = richer


At Dyno Flash we use real numbers and real evidence to guide us. When we see something is printed clearly before our eyes we understand that the laws of physics are being applied to the gasses and liquids which create combustion and the results are printed on the page.

 

I agree, you are done posting in this thread. There is sufficient information for members to draw their own conclusions without "cover up" accusations. Thanks.

Speedlimit..

 

Thank you Speedlimit.

It was growing abundantly clear that this guy was more interested in pushing Al's buttons
than the facts, whatever they are.

BTW, this guy sure reminds me of someone else - someone currently banned.
Lives in texas - loves various weaponry, like, I don't know, say, an MP5 for example.
Must have a twin brother...

 

What is sad is that you accuse and attempt to discredit, but offer no real evidence to support you claims.
Al goes out and does real work to prove his point and you infer he is rigging the results.
You weren't going to accept what Al posted anyway, were you ???
Oh - he has a catback ... oh, he has an intake .. oh, his tires are inflated to 32 lbs. - your results are not valid.

But Al does things like this anyway for the benefit of his costumers.
And we appreciate his efforts.

You have only been here for a couple of months as a member.
And a quick sampling of your posts shows the tone of most to be destructive in nature, not
constructive or informative.
If you want your viewpoint considered by the other members, then offer something concrete as evidence.
I'm sorry, but around here " it's true because I say so" doesn't get very far.
However, it works for those here who have spent a long time building up a measure of "site cred".

Apologies for the rant.

 

Great information Al. It was just exactly what I had seen in my car on the datalogs of O2 voltages. I think I need to get the Fireball 3 now.

Brian

 

do a search under his Rallyred screen name - almost every single post is trashing me

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/se...searchid=78416

welcome back MP5

good job mike

 

I am at Pruven now Dyno Flashing another car - this one is running like 10.8 with the Dyno Flash, 3" exhuast, AEM intake and Hallaman boost controller - high 290 whp range

We will see how the introduction of the Walbro fuel pump effects this car which is obviously running sufficiently rich at the present time

Dyno sheets at 5

 

Introducing the fuel pump cost this car to also go rich - over 1 full point after 5500 rpms

Also it lost just about 10 whp

Same exact results that we saw yesterday with the car that was running leaner to start at 11.5

So we see that starting rich or lean makes no difference

When you start with a Fireball 2 Dyno Flash using stock fuel pump and then add a Walbro 255 lph fuel pump without retuning you will go over 1 pt richer on your a/f's after 5500 rpms and also loose about 10 whp

You will still be leaner than a stock car so it seems you can drive it no problem