Case study # 77 - SAFC vs. FLASH
 

I thought that the question about the effectiveness of a safc vs a flash was resolved a long time ago but it seems that entire carrers in tuning are being made on SAFC tuning

I will post more data on the SAFC vs. Flash discussion later - for now I just want to post the sheet

BR Stage 2 - 21 psi - 93 octane

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...chmentid=71610

i believe it. my car was a lot smoother and torquier after the mail-in-flash. i had been tuning the safc for quite a while, but the flash definitely was an improvement over the safc.

Yeah except for when I want to run race gas. Are you going to come flash it every time I go to the track and need it leaned out for race fuel?

that's when the afc comes in handy to compliment the flash.:)

{thumbup}

Besides boost cut, fuel cut, and rev limiter, what exactly does the flash do that the safc can't do? I know some might say timing, but the safc indirectly can conrol timing. Could it be because of the increments in which the safc is set at? The safc having only 8 or so setpoints can't be optimal. I honestly don't know why the flash is superior. I personally thought the major advantage of the flash was the fact that it's being tuned by a professional, in this case, Al. Those dyno sheets tell me that's not the case, as Al tuned both the safc and the ecu himself. I had a safc II but was too afraid to mess with it so that's why i'm going with the custom flash next week. After researching a bit, I'm pretty confident that I am making the correct decision.

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That is a wrong statement. You should say that it indirectly AFFECT the timing. To get the AFR to a richer side in mid range, you are also retarding timing. That will bring your torque a lot lower (richer AFR + less timing). On the other hand, you try to lean out at top end, you are also advancing timing indirectly. That will make your car more prone to knock.

How is it that people still think that "lying" to the stock ecu will be more effective than properly adjusting fuel and timing curves in the stock program?
It is beyond my understanding....

The problem with the AFC is a nut shell is that you are inavriably always setting NEGATIVE numbers to dial in the a/r ratio on a evo - - this results in the ecu running on a much more overly advanced ignition timing zone which always means you are riding the knock sensor and have retarded timing. The AFC may result in higher timing for one or two dyno pulls but after 5 minutes of operation your timing is pulled and rough - NO WAY around it - period.

As shown above - the capacity to independently adjust a/f and timing results in huge tq gains and a much smoother power band.

The safc is a nice play toy but not even close to the same leauge as a serious tuning tool like the reflash machine.

Finally - few people realize the stock ecu has two main fuel and ign maps which are totally different. Many times people tune on one map with the safc and when the ecu switches to the second map your tune is significantly off.

al, can you elabirate a little more on this. ie, one for wot and the other for normal driving? if this is the case, do you flash for two maps? thanx

To my understanding, there is a "life is good" map and a "why is this gas in here?" map and it fluctuates between the two, depending upon conditions.

This is accurate and the fluxuation is dynamic and constant.

The big issue with safc tuning is that very often the car reverts to the crap map within minutes of when it leaves the dyno due to the extreme knock which the car will experience with overly advanced ignition timing throgh MAF sensor manipulation.

The HP gains speaks for themselves, not much to understand there.
If you need more info? Ask David Buschur, Im sure he can help you understand, since he has been using the afc for tuning customers cars for quite sometime.

Are you looking at the same dyno plots as I am? Do you see anything under the curve that smooth in its transition?
Using an AFC to tune a customers car for minimal mods is one thing, but to say that it would be prefered by anyone who has the ability to correct fuel and ignition curves in the stock program is rediculous.
I seriously DOUBT David Buschur or any credible tuner would rather use an AFC "piggyback" over a true EMS. UNLESS it would be for budget purposes or minor modification not to void warrantees.
True Reflashing has been on the horizon for the EVO for a short time.
You can't honestly tell me that you believe what you just posted.
Are you saying that AN AFC can "fine tune" a base Fuel map better than a software package that will allow access the addition or removal of fuel at designated points in the Curve?
All the while not indirectly affecting ignition timing?
You have got to be kidding me.